PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
But he got the nod from his wife.
'Any Non-Rev Pilots on board?'
- Thread starter I_Money
- Start date
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Obviously the FO wanted to see if there was somebody in the back that could help. Not everybody would do it the same. But she wanted some help, and he was there.
Most articles written for military publications are embellished, or at least made to sound heroic. It's SOP for military writers. You should read the Army Times. You may vomit before you're finished.
The Bone dude is/was an ALO I work with. He is transitioning to the Air National Guard to fly C-130s. I will continue to respect his privacy, but suffice to say, he did the job he was asked to do by the FO. No more, no less. He is an all-around good guy.
The article takes some parts of his interview out of context (imagine that).
The article takes some parts of his interview out of context (imagine that).
I really don't think an FO can handle the task.
I mean, I saw the Denzel movie Flight. And judging by the FO in that movie, which I have to believe was 100% accurate because Hollywood strives hard for pinpoint accuracy in their character portrayals, all FOs aren't able to handle any emergency and just come apart at the seams when things go wrong.
The only exception being Otto the FO from Airplane! He kept a cool head.
And if it were me, I would only look for rotary wing pilots from the back to help.....
......to help roll inverted and pull, that is.
I mean, I saw the Denzel movie Flight. And judging by the FO in that movie, which I have to believe was 100% accurate because Hollywood strives hard for pinpoint accuracy in their character portrayals, all FOs aren't able to handle any emergency and just come apart at the seams when things go wrong.
The only exception being Otto the FO from Airplane! He kept a cool head.
And if it were me, I would only look for rotary wing pilots from the back to help.....
......to help roll inverted and pull, that is.
Roger Roger
I am le tired
I read the naval aviation equivalent of that once. It was all about how seaman so and so saved the whole squadron by filling out the missing piece of paperwork. It made my head hurt.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
Besides helping me drag that dead guy out of MY seat, all I'd probably want help with is a fresh cup of coffee.
Winner!! That is the correct answer and most efficient solution. The last thing Id want is "This right? You mean this one, wait, this one? Huh? What was that? Oh oh oh, ok, gotcha. Wow, its loud in here. Wait, oh, never mind, I got it. This one, right? Just wanna double check. This one, yes? 251.4? Oh, haha, I thought you said "more" no worries. Yeah yeah, I got it. What do I do with the uhh, ohhh, haha duuuh. Ok, no problem, sorry about that man, I got it"
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
Uh, look at who is publishing the article. Hyperbole, Inc.
I can only imagine, "No, seriously. The push-to-talk is on the stick, like a trigger. NO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SHOOT ANYTHING. Here's the flaps handle. No no no, I'll activate approach mode. If you're not sure what he said, ask him again… I know he's got a funny accent…"
***BEEEEENG BONNNNNNG***
"Yeah, this is Derg in the cockpit, come drag this yahoo out of the cockpit and close the secondary behind him, ok? KTHANKSBAI"
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
Besides helping me drag that dead guy out of MY seat, all I'd probably want help with is a fresh cup of coffee.
My company has a strict policy of never volunteering in the event of any exigent circumstance. Something about HR liability if we can't get cream in the coffee, and the lack of an authorizing email copied to 6 or 8 people.
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
Yeah, those 135 guys can't speak, drag their knuckles all over the switches, and tend to smell funny, too. Especially after 10 or 15 thousand hours in the cockpit. Oh, the humanity!
KLB
Well-Known Member
A
Adler
Guest
Gizmodo picked it up, "Bomber pilot saves the day in Boeing 727 emergency landing"
http://sploid.gizmodo.com/bomber-pi...source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Pretty painful read, "Gongol assisted her, following her lead. While some may think that flying a sophisticated machine like the B-1B Lancer would automatically make you capable of safely flying any jet, every complex airplane requires its own training and qualification".
http://sploid.gizmodo.com/bomber-pi...source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Pretty painful read, "Gongol assisted her, following her lead. While some may think that flying a sophisticated machine like the B-1B Lancer would automatically make you capable of safely flying any jet, every complex airplane requires its own training and qualification".
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
FlyDutchman
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with the decision of the F/O or the military aviator offering assistance. I would offer my assistance in that situation and respect the authority of the person that actually knows what they are doing up there. If asked to go up to the cockpit, I after sitting down and buckling in I would say, "Now what?"
SO now the F/O has to tell me what else is going on besides the CA being dragged out of the cockpit, where the PTT switch/ hand mic. is, tell me where we are going, what has already been conveyed to ATC and what I need to tell them still, etc... Then they tell me to call Ops. and get a gate for later and air-stairs and an ambulance ready to meet us at the plane. To this I reply, "what is the Ops. frequency and how do I change frequencies on here?" And depending on the altitude the F/O is supposed to have the oxygen mask on but it's an emergency so you can deviate from that I guess. If I was the F/O and we are 10-20 min. from touchdown I don't think I really want to do all that. Now if it was only one thing to do that was monkey simple, as I believe @A300Capt explained earlier like, "crank this lever when I tell you, don't stop until it won't budge." Then it's useful and has no learning curve. And even in his situation he had someone from his company which takes a load off your mind.
Even though radios seem like they are easy to all commercially rated pilots, it is not a monkey simple job in an unfamiliar cockpit. Radio panels are placed in different locations. Some have turn dials, some have buttons, and some have both. Even just setting someone up to use a radio/ intercom system, that was set up by another pilot just the way he/she likes it, can be distracting.
This brings me to my real point. It may have been assumed but has not been explicitly stated. Make ATC your servant. They are on the ground. They have a supervisor that can run over and assist. They have qualified people sitting in a break room that I'm sure would jump up to assist if more hands are needed. They have radios and phones. And most importantly, they are all familiar with their facility and know how to utilize it to its maximum extent. So all of the things you brought a guy in to handle the radios for ATC can do waaaaay better. Tell ATC to get an ambulance and air-stairs. Tell ATC to tell your company you are diverting to XYZ. Tell ATC you are unfamiliar with the airport and want a long final to get configured early. Just don't tell them how you like your coffee.
SO now the F/O has to tell me what else is going on besides the CA being dragged out of the cockpit, where the PTT switch/ hand mic. is, tell me where we are going, what has already been conveyed to ATC and what I need to tell them still, etc... Then they tell me to call Ops. and get a gate for later and air-stairs and an ambulance ready to meet us at the plane. To this I reply, "what is the Ops. frequency and how do I change frequencies on here?" And depending on the altitude the F/O is supposed to have the oxygen mask on but it's an emergency so you can deviate from that I guess. If I was the F/O and we are 10-20 min. from touchdown I don't think I really want to do all that. Now if it was only one thing to do that was monkey simple, as I believe @A300Capt explained earlier like, "crank this lever when I tell you, don't stop until it won't budge." Then it's useful and has no learning curve. And even in his situation he had someone from his company which takes a load off your mind.
Even though radios seem like they are easy to all commercially rated pilots, it is not a monkey simple job in an unfamiliar cockpit. Radio panels are placed in different locations. Some have turn dials, some have buttons, and some have both. Even just setting someone up to use a radio/ intercom system, that was set up by another pilot just the way he/she likes it, can be distracting.
This brings me to my real point. It may have been assumed but has not been explicitly stated. Make ATC your servant. They are on the ground. They have a supervisor that can run over and assist. They have qualified people sitting in a break room that I'm sure would jump up to assist if more hands are needed. They have radios and phones. And most importantly, they are all familiar with their facility and know how to utilize it to its maximum extent. So all of the things you brought a guy in to handle the radios for ATC can do waaaaay better. Tell ATC to get an ambulance and air-stairs. Tell ATC to tell your company you are diverting to XYZ. Tell ATC you are unfamiliar with the airport and want a long final to get configured early. Just don't tell them how you like your coffee.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
I think the issue for me is very simple—if I'm one of a two person crew and one has keeled over, I'd welcome the additional redundancy that another somewhat-similarly trained set of eyes provides, even if it's not sure what it's looking at. It's not an issue of solely delegating tasks, it's an issue of having some degree of crosscheck and maintaining some degree of redundancy, no matter how degraded, should TSHTF further.
But I don't fly 121, so perhaps there's something I'm missing.
-Fox
But I don't fly 121, so perhaps there's something I'm missing.
-Fox
Agree. Another airline pilot would obviously be of good use, but who knows? Maybe the mil pilot is a transport guy who flies the same type that's being flown? C-9, C-40 etc. A good up front person won't see anyone other than a 121 pilot from their equipment as a detriment, but rather would utilize the strengths that person brings to the cockpit. If anything, have them do the flying/monitoring while you do all the other tasks that they are unfamiliar with.
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