desertdog71
Girthy Member
Damn lawyers
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Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Any CFI's sued by students / families after crash?
- Thread starter gliderboy
- Start date
There's only so much a CFI can control. Even if you put out an above-average or better student, and Murphy decides to come ruin their day one day (maybe even years down the road) and hand them over to the Grim Reaper on a silver platter, there's not really anything the CFI could've done to prevent that.
PenguinAviator
Looks sharp in a tuxedo
I know a CFI here that formed an LLC to instruct ... it may or may not be a benefit for you to seek an LLC but as always, seek legal counsel.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
The best protection that most CFI's have from lawsuits is their overdrawn bank accounts. Personal injury lawyers are not going to sue anyone who is not insured or does not have enough assets to actually collect from. That does not mean that it can't happen, but the odds are pretty low. Buying a large insurance policy could actually backfire in this case. Since you are covered by a policy that the lawyers can reasonably expect to collect from.
Having said that, I agree that it is best to keep good documentation of students training. It is particularly important to document stall spin training, since that is the cause of many fatal accidents.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
In general, not so much in this area. It's not a car accident. The lawyers who handle these kinds of cases are fewer and further between than the usual bunch of TV-advertisers and at least need to know something about flying to avoid some hefty start-up costs. There are also states with "instructor malpractice" doctrines that limit the types of cases than can be made against instructors (not just flight instructors, although there's a pretty recent case in Minnesota involving Cirrus that applied the doctrine to throw out the case, at least where the pilot wasn't a student pilot).
For those and other reasons, instructor malpractice cases are less common than some other types of injury litigation.
That's of course "in general" and any specific situation needs to be gauged on its own set of facts.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Generally, that does zero to protect a CFI against liability for an accident.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I've been on both sides of the leaseback arrangement (now called "management agreements" because IRS went after fast & loose leasebacks years ago). There have been other discussions here about them, and I've consistently preached the following as protection for me as owner:
1) The airplane should be owned by an LLC (or other legal entity that's best for you) and have its own bank account;
2) Know the owner and instructors at the flight school - if I hear they're screwing around, I pull the plane;
3) Know the mechanics;
4) Have the school get the insurance because they get better options by covering a larger fleet;
5) Solid management agreement reviewed by an aviation attorney (goes without saying);
6) I don't argue over maintenance - if something breaks it gets fixed - so I can't be held liable for something that breaks.
If somebody crashes in my plane and gets seriously injured or killed, I'm getting sued. Nothing I can do about that. But I'm totally removed from operational decisions, whether they be training, renter checkouts, dispatching, maintenance, fueling or cleaning the windshield.
pressclick
Well-Known Member
A friend of mine defended a CFI who gave a guy some dual while he was learning to fly his new twin which he promptly used to kill himself and his family. The estate pretty much sued everyone they could find. This CFI got lucky in that my friend's firm defended him pro bono. It eventually got dropped or dismissed.
This was the accident:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20080116X00062&key=1
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This was the accident:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20080116X00062&key=1
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Flightnerd
Well-Known Member
Screw liability
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
When I was at DCA now Aerosim there was a incident where a 172-RG's gear didn't come down. The CFI did everything in his power to get the gear down including opening the door and hanging out to try and yank it down(crazy I know). He never got it down and they had to do a belly up landing. They survived and he did an amazing job. The students parents had the nerve to sue the CFI(I can understand the school but the CFI?). It turned out to be a faulty hydraulic line and the lawsuit was thrown out very quickly. People are sue happy way too many times in this country. If you don't think your student is ready, don't send them.
flyingbum
Needz Re-Edjamacayshun
That's nuts man, all from a gear up landing that they walked away from. People really are sue happy.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
Yeah but you can get that nifty Master CFI plaque.
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wheelsup
Well-Known Member
My biggest fear isn't the award itself it would be properly defending myself and the cost associated with that. Not like this is small claims and you're talking to Judge Judy.
It's crazy if you think about it, the liability you open yourself up to while instructing and also down the road 5, 10, 20 years later. I dunno about you guys but I really scribbled by CFI # in those logbooks. Fortunately, 2 of the 3 places I instructed have shut down.
Personally I feel this is one major reason why CFI's and pilots in general are well underpaid. IMO we aren't compensated for the liability associated with the job and environment.
It's crazy if you think about it, the liability you open yourself up to while instructing and also down the road 5, 10, 20 years later. I dunno about you guys but I really scribbled by CFI # in those logbooks. Fortunately, 2 of the 3 places I instructed have shut down.
Personally I feel this is one major reason why CFI's and pilots in general are well underpaid. IMO we aren't compensated for the liability associated with the job and environment.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
One can't get rid of someone trying to sue you so, as you say, having insunaces is important to help protect against completely frivolous suits.
But I feel pretty safe in saying that your liability 5, 10, or 20 years down the line is about zero and a concern about it a just a wee bit of fear with no basis in reality.
Want a handle on the real liability exposure - check out the rates for the liability portion of a non-owned aircraft policy without a CFI endorsement to one with the CFI endorsement, remembering the insurance companies are in the business of making money.
