Any Airplane Owners?

T

THE_DUKE

Old Timer
I am thinking of getting my own plane, single engine piston, and have been doing a lot of research. Insurance and maintenance seems to be the most expensive part. I have a very good friend who is an AP mechanic.

Question: How did you decide on the plane you bought, TT, TT SMOH, etc.? I am looking at planes in the 3-5K hour range with recent overhauls and am interested in what others have bought and what advise you have for me.
 
Low overhaul or new engine time along with a history of no damage. Bring your A&P friend to help with a prebuy and to look through the maint books. Make sure there are no leans on the aircraft and such.

If you let us know your mission for the aircraft and price range, we could help with helping you find what type of aircraft to look for.
 
Family and recreational flying. I like the Piper's. I don't want to spend more than $50K and am real picky about not having to do many upgrades, if any at all.
 
I have been an owner for about 4 years now and comparing the expense with friends in EAA, I will just build a plane and rent until it is complete.
 
THE_DUKE said:
I am thinking of getting my own plane, single engine piston, and have been doing a lot of research. Insurance and maintenance seems to be the most expensive part. I have a very good friend who is an AP mechanic.

Question: How did you decide on the plane you bought, TT, TT SMOH, etc.? I am looking at planes in the 3-5K hour range with recent overhauls and am interested in what others have bought and what advise you have for me.
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What ever you do, make sure you get an A&P who is trustworthy (not one recommended by the seller) and get a VERY thorough pre-buy inspection!
 
Hmm, I'll be interested in following this one. I've been looking around, and thinking about how low some prices are on planes right now. Been kicking around the idea of a 1 airplane, 2-3 instructor flight school, in my head. Somebody tell me I'm crazy now.
 
I purchased for three basic reasons:
1. We could afford to own instead of rent; insurance, annuals, hangar, etc.
2. We wanted a plane for initial training purposes & the low time engine.
3. The previous owner was a pilot that I knew, who had too many
planes... (Independent shop - annual completed prior to purchase)

If you belong to AOPA, they have a great calculator for working through ownership costs....

Remember the purchase price is just the beginning...
 
Just like buying cars, do not choose an airplane based solely on numbers (TTAF, SMOH, etc.). Hangar queens look great in this regard, except that problems that would not surface for years when the previous guy (who owned the airplane for 20 years and flew it 30 hours a year) will now show up in months if you fly the airplane 300 hours a year. This phenomenon mainly affects mechanical moving things, like engines :) There is a huge difference between 300 hours SMOH over 20 years vs 300 hours SMOH over 5 years. Ideally, you want an airplane that has been well maintained and flown enough (and hopefully flown properly), not spent all its time sitting.

Nice paint and a pretty interior are certainly nice, but if you're on a budget, I'd put the priority on the mechanical condition and the avionics. You never get your money back on upgrades, so you're much better off to buy the aircraft that someone else spent money to upgrade, suffered the depreciation, and thus you get better value.

As always, get a thorough pre buy done, and preferably by one who knows whatever type of aircraft you're looking at well. There are lots of good aircraft for sale right now at great prices, so do your homework, and don't be afraid to look across the country to find the right airplane.
 
Look at the numbers and then the numbers within the numbers. For example, look at the OH, when it was done, how many hours flown a year since the OH, was the OH before TBO, if so, why?, are there any expensive ADs that come along in the bundle, prices of previous annuals, and list goes on, aircraft logs...But you should get a good understanding of what needs to be looked at with a fine tooth comb.

Make sure you look into a tie down / hangar space and insurance costs prior to initial purchase. Buying an aircraft is the cheap part, maintaining it and paying for all the expenses that come along with the airplane is the expensive part.
 
We just bought a piper Arrow 3 got it for a great deal has awsome avionics and great platform to go all the way to my Cfi CfII everything except my Mei and multi commercial only thing it needed was paint previous owner took great care of it and costs are not to much cheaper then flight school in the long run.
 
Erik1010 said:
Look at the numbers and then the numbers within the numbers. For example, look at the OH, when it was done, how many hours flown a year since the OH, was the OH before TBO, if so, why?, are there any expensive ADs that come along in the bundle, prices of previous annuals, and list goes on, aircraft logs...But you should get a good understanding of what needs to be looked at with a fine tooth comb.

Make sure you look into a tie down / hangar space and insurance costs prior to initial purchase. Buying an aircraft is the cheap part, maintaining it and paying for all the expenses that come along with the airplane is the expensive part.
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This is all good advice and I thank you for that. I most certainly know the purchase price is by far the cost of ownership. Luckily, I have a really good A&P friend, an uncle who retired from FedEx (and owned his own plane), a good price on hanger space IMO (~$150/mth), they said to tie down outside would be $30/mth, I think I should double check that...

Anyway, regarding insurance, I should be instrument rated by the time I purchase, but have not even got a quote yet.
I know there are a lot of factors, should I have exact aircraft numbers before getting quotes (assume so)? This is why I haven't really investigated insurance premiums much.
 
McDiesel said:
We just bought a piper Arrow 3 got it for a great deal has awsome avionics and great platform to go all the way to my Cfi CfII everything except my Mei and multi commercial only thing it needed was paint previous owner took great care of it and costs are not to much cheaper then flight school in the long run.
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What year is your plane? What are the times on the engine? How much did you pay? (Understand if you don't want to share, just looking to benchmark).
I know you are younger (relative, I am 31 and am still "young") and assume a family member purchased. If so, are they a licensed pilot? Just curious about your insurance premiums and other cost.

Is that a picture of your plane, I really like the Piper.

--end 20 questions, sorry.
 
No problem its a 1978 my dad bought it he is retierd continetal pilot its about 1100 a year for me and him on the inshurance policy i will try and post some pics i picked it up for around 57grand air frame is 4600tt and engine is 1600smoh
 

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THE_DUKE said:
This is all good advice and I thank you for that. I most certainly know the purchase price is by far the cost of ownership. Luckily, I have a really good A&P friend, an uncle who retired from FedEx (and owned his own plane), a good price on hanger space IMO (~$150/mth), they said to tie down outside would be $30/mth, I think I should double check that...

Anyway, regarding insurance, I should be instrument rated by the time I purchase, but have not even got a quote yet.
I know there are a lot of factors, should I have exact aircraft numbers before getting quotes (assume so)? This is why I haven't really investigated insurance premiums much.
Click to expand...

If you can handle the cost of a hangar, I would definitely make that my main choice. I had my aircraft tied down for 2 years before a hangar became available (waiting list), and the paint sure takes a beating from the elements.

As far as the insurance and getting the #s goes. We called a few places before we settled with a company. Some insurance companies will not insure certain aircraft with low time pilots or will have ungodly annual charges (10k/yr).

The insurance company will want to know the pilots times, aircraft times, OH times & dates, any previous accidents and I think there were a few others they wanted, but I can't remember right now.

If you have any more questions you can drop me a PM.
 
McDiesel said:
No problem its a 1978 my dad bought it he is retierd continetal pilot its about 1100 a year for me and him on the inshurance policy i will try and post some pics i picked it up for around 57grand air frame is 4600tt and engine is 1600smoh
Click to expand...

You guys have a very sharp Arrow III. You'll be spoiled with an HSI and a G430 for your instrument training.
 
You need to define your mission. Once you do that, the choice of plane becomes much more academic. If you want to own and you want to keep it on a tight budget, a completed homebuilt is certainly something to consider. You would be able to do any and all MX yourself as well as any modifications you like. And your A&P buddy will be able to sign off on the condition inspections (annual). You can't own a plane cheaper than experiemental. Also, you generally get more plane (performance/avionics) for the dollar when buying experimental.
 
I'll second the advice of getting a VERY good A&P to go along with you for a very intense pre-buy inspection.

My dad has had owners come in with planes they've just bought that he's told them they really should have come to him for a pre-buy first... Their lack of a good pre-buy has ended up costing the new owner a LOT of money.
 
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