Another variant of Al Keyhall

S

Sig

New Member
This well and truly happened on 11/13 from CLT to DFW.

Group of 5 very drunk, very belligerent, and very fanatic about the upcoming Eagles/Cowboys game refuse to sit for a headcount. I'm a deadhead, in uniform, and an instant target for Mr. Coolguy McLoudenfoulmouth, their ringleader. He literally rubs his crotch on my shoulder as he makes his way up the aisle, asking me if I "like that sh*t." I turn six shades of crimson and imagine a thousand horrible deaths for the little b@stard, and he sits behind me (not his ticketed seat) to continue talking trash while I stare laserbeams into the seat in front of me. The rest of his coterie stumble aft to their seats, but don't sit. He continues to berate me (the idiot called me captain about a thousand times), he drops a bombastic ethnic/racial slur (yup, THAT one, Doug) to the elderly woman to his left, requests a sexual favor from the cutie to his right, and calls for the OJ from a FA "cuz I broughts my VODKA, beeyatch!" [He is an inked-up, 5'5" Rocky Balboa wannabe with a shaved head and a handlebar mustache that screamed 'Y-M-C-A'. Maybe there was something else going on with that shoulder-dance, who knows.]

Long/short: FA approaches me, asks me to help keep them quiet, and I tell her to kick them off. Now.

She immediately runs to the cockpit, tells the captain, they try to get the CSA to come to the plane, but since this is a certain airline in bankruptcy with possible abrogation of all contracts imminent, she can't be bothered.

We are now exactly 35 minutes after our scheduled departure time, the doors are ready to shut, and the captain is staring down the aisle at me and dirtbags behind me. (733, btw)

What would you do?

--- I hope somebody posts some replies. What happened next still bothers me, a LOT.

**hint: This flight was a terminator with an early show on Sunday.
 
That's a doozy...

Part of me would want to move, but then your presence there in uniform is probably keeping the surrounding passengers calm.

Part of me would want to get off the jet, but then you're going to have to explain to the chief pilot why you didn't show for a trip while taking the last boat out of town.

But I think I'd start a dialogue with the flight attendants about the situation and offer to speak to the captain about the gravity of the situation in the passenger cabin.

From experience, when you're sitting in the cockpit with all of the radio fans, altimeter vibrators and such, it's pretty hard to hear what's going on in the passenger cabin. Sometimes when there's a belligerant passenger situation, you never know until the flight attendant says something. And depending on how they describe the situation, the captain may think it's another case of 'drunk passenger' and not 'potentially violent crazy man'.

Maybe talk to the flight attendant and let her know that the situation is escalating and offer to brief the captain on the situation? I can't see a captain, after hearing that someone is verbally abusive and getting physical with passengers, wouldn't instruct the passenger to get lost with or without the consent of the CSA.
 
These passengers need to be removed.

Now.

It's not an easy, comfortable or happy thing to do. But reading your story brought on that now-familier wave of "damn I'm glad I'm furloughed' feeling. In this same situation, I would suggest speaking to the F/As, telling them exactly how you feel about these pax, if they can't be bothered to relate to the CA the brevity of the situation, tell him yourself! These pax 'appear to be intoxicated', which is enough to have them booted. Remeber, per FARs we are not allowed to carry pax who appear to be intoxicated.

So sorry you had to deal with people like that. It was my observation that most people are a pretty decent sort, maybe not very bright sometimes, but usually decent. Then you get people like the ones you encountered, and they would (briefly) destroy my faith in the human race. I never realized how much I needed a break from my job until I spent a few months at home!


Edit: So what did happen? Do we want to know?
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Sig, that's a no-brainer for me man. I agree with Doug and the above. I would do exactly what you did. I'd firmly express to the FA that this guy needs to go NOW. I would've then offered (suggested) to speak to the Captain and explain the potential severity of the situation. If the Captain had any sense at all, the subject would be promptly removed. Screw waiting for the CSA, the situation you explained calls for IMMEDIATE action (removal). I commend you for not non-chalantly (sp?) knocking his f#$#'in teeth out. This guy sounds about as bad as they come.
 
Lloyd, you certainly would have had a dog in that fight immediately.


I posted this because it really is a no-brainer. The guy never should have made it to Dallas, and he really deserved to lose a few teeth..

He in fact did make it, and he pushed the grandmother a bit too far en route. She cursed him out, he made a big deal out of it, she told him to shut up, etc. Wittle bitty Philly Italian Stallion had his wittle feewings hutt by big bad grandma, so he had to save face on deplaning.

As the pax deplaned, I swapped across the aisle to let the other two on my side out,and to get a good view of him. He stood up and refused to let the grandmother out. She gave him a shove, HE PUSHED HER BACK. She hit the window, and sat right down.

The crew did nothing- they were busy stitching up the plane for the RON and didn't notice. He saw me stand up, realized I was a foot taller than him, and got out of the way. The old lady got out, walked to the jetway, I asked the pax to roadblock him, and I went and got her. She refused to do anything about the assault.

I went back to the plane, the crew was kissing everybody goodbye, the passengers didn't really stop him because the guy gets off, his buddy calls me a jerkoff... the FAs (bless them, they were dead on their feet) caught the remark and realized it was way too late to do anything. He was gone. I told them again what happened on boarding, that he pushed her down on deplaning, and that's about all that was done about it. A few aghast looks and a headshake or two was it. By the time I got my gear in one sock, I was following the flight crew out the door. Talk about ready to leave! I don't blame them, either. It's a certain kind of urgency to get the hell out on a Saturday night.

I very nearly lost it, however. I've had a few gut-checks wearing the uniform, but that was the toughest one yet.

The lesson learned is we have to assume that this will happen every time a jackass gets hammered before getting on a plane. There is no such thing as a "right" to fly- either they behave or they walk. Never be afraid to block a jerk for ANY reason. The crew is busy- make them aware. The crew is complacent (not saying this crew was), make them aware. The crew is on top of things- get out of the way or offer to help.

I am new to the game, but I did have a tiny bit of authority, and I failed to appropriately use it.

I should have stood up and raised hell until they understood what was happening. If I EVER see him again, he better be acting the best he has his entire life. Don't let it happen.
 
All things come in turn. I firmly belive that for every action a person takes, the same is returned to them two-fold at some point.

Agents let drunkards board flights because they don't want to have to deal with them. F/As are willing to overlook it because they don't want to deal with it. At some point, someone has to put their foot down. It's not easy, and I commend you for taking the actions you did.

Thanks for sharing this. It sucks that people can behave in such a way. He'll get his due, probably in a good @ss-kicking in a bar fight or something, but he'll get it.

Why, oh, why do people have to do things like this. It was the worst part of my job. I don't miss it one bit.
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[ QUOTE ]
She immediately runs to the cockpit, tells the captain, they try to get the CSA to come to the plane, but since this is a certain airline in bankruptcy with possible abrogation of all contracts imminent, she can't be bothered.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a CSA myself, don't call for us when you can take care of something yourself. Trust me, we get less respect from pax then anyone. If crew can't get someone off the plane, and the captains 4 stripes don't calm them down, the only thing to be done is to call the police and have them taken off.

Sorry, I've gotten asked by crew to do so much of the work they don't like doing that it ticks me off. Its mostly by FAs, as once I give a little "flying lingo" to the flight deck crew they realize i'm no idiot and treat me with much more respect.
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I could never be a ticket or gate agent. They take the most abuse of any front-line employee.

That being said, it actually was our agents jobs to at least be in on the removal of problem pax like this from aircraft. I'm sure the specific job description & duties varies from airline to airline, but we could not kick a person off the plane without an agent involved. They needed to at least be present. We as F/As were not allowed to kick a person off the plane by ourselves. We had to involve the pilots and the agents, and if necessary the police.

And it works both ways, I have seen as many agents eager to hand off unwanted tasks to F/As as I have seen F/As try to do the same to the agents. A sad contribution to the us vs. them mentality so often seen between agents & F/As.
 
I'm surprised you need a gate agent to offload someone. If it were me as a gate agent and you took someone off i'm not going to argue, since it matters nothing to me.

I've seen some drunks at the counters. Once there was a guy wearing an old undershirt with a big wet stain on it. His carry-on bag was over the weight limit and when he opens it to re-pack it I see a bottle of JD inside. The bottle was near emptyand i think most of the bottle was on his shirt. He didn't fly.
Its almost fun to get an angry pax at the counter, they're not going to get any extra help from me and I usually just laugh to myself.
I think if everyone just took care of whatever problem presented itself the first time they saw it there would be no CSA vs. FA vs. CA/FO gripes, and things would run much better.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think if everyone just took care of whatever problem presented itself the first time they saw it there would be no CSA vs. FA vs. CA/FO gripes, and things would run much better.


[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more!
 
People from various departments...working together?! I'd write a proposal, but they'd think I was another 'know-it-all' pah-litt.
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Doug why didn't the CA-FO come back themselves? I would call security but I would be back there helping "one of my own."

I'm shocked they left you sitting there.

I'm deathly afraid that you will say they put you in another seat and took off with the jerks.
 
Simple. This guy gets off the airplane, NOW. If the gate agent can't be bothered, get the police out there. The guy is likely intoxicated, has been verbally abusive to at least three passengers, and disrespectful to a flight attendant. Any of these are grounds for removal all by themselves ... all three together, no question you kick him off right now. In your position, I would have done whatever I could to let the FAs and the captain know about the situation. Like Doug said, up in the cockpit (even with the door open during boarding) between the various noises up there and our absorption in other tasks we are often blissfully ignorant of what happens in back until/unless someone brings it to our attention. I have a hard time imagining any captain would let someone fly after all this crap if he knew the whole story.
 
It's hard to know the mind of a Captain that has at least 18 years of longevity on a late Saturday night terminator, a late departure, the hellacious goings-on with the Union v. Courts v. Mainline and the attendant drop in morale... throw into the mix exhausted crew behind him, a group of rowdy a-frames... who knows what workload he was actually under up there anyway. But what SHOULD have happened was exactly what Doug and FL270 (and the rest of you folks, for that matter) said, right on the money- if he was truly involved with what was up, I doubt the rest of what happened downstream would have.

I'm trying to spread the idea that preemptively I should have overcome the shock and did whatever it took to get him off. I failed to. I'm taking the blame here for not speaking up more, and it won't ever happen again.

It's a scenario that you really never think about. I was actually afraid of losing my cool and physically taking him off the plane rather roughly. Would you be? If so, you'd sit on your hands for a minute or two as well lest you take out some frustration and get yourself into serious, serious trouble. Sad fact: pilots can be the enemy (and I don't mean vs. CSAs, highspeed
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). Remeber as well, I'm a probationary new-hire for the next... 7 months. All it would take is just a few SOBER Eagles fans to say I was rude, rough and unfair, and I'm out of a job. It was all part of the stress of the situation.

Thanks for the replies.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Doug why didn't the CA-FO come back themselves? I would call security but I would be back there helping "one of my own."

I'm shocked they left you sitting there.

I'm deathly afraid that you will say they put you in another seat and took off with the jerks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me? Huh? D00d, didn't happen to me!
smile.gif


But thanks!

The only problem I've ever had commuting was when I introduce myself to the captain when I was riding offline to DFW, stayed up in the cockpit shooting the breeze about industry stuff then took a seat once the final paperwork came.

Then my 'seat mate' -- an lady about 90 years old began to loudly lecture me about arriving to the aircraft on time and how they were all waiting for >>>>ME!<<<< And how rude it was that I was late.

Meanwhile, we're still about 10 minutes prior to push.

Then she spent about 25 minutes telling me that she was going to ask the 'stewardess' for Pepsi because she really likes Pepsi. And how those other airlines don't have Pepsi, but she especially booked this paritcular airline because they have Pepsi and WHY OH WHY don't more airlines have Pepsi?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doug why didn't the CA-FO come back themselves? I would call security but I would be back there helping "one of my own."

I'm shocked they left you sitting there.

I'm deathly afraid that you will say they put you in another seat and took off with the jerks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me? Huh? D00d, didn't happen to me!
smile.gif


But thanks!

The only problem I've ever had commuting was when I introduce myself to the captain when I was riding offline to DFW, stayed up in the cockpit shooting the breeze about industry stuff then took a seat once the final paperwork came.

Then my 'seat mate' -- an lady about 90 years old began to loudly lecture me about arriving to the aircraft on time and how they were all waiting for >>>>ME!<<<< And how rude it was that I was late.

Meanwhile, we're still about 10 minutes prior to push.

Then she spent about 25 minutes telling me that she was going to ask the 'stewardess' for Pepsi because she really likes Pepsi. And how those other airlines don't have Pepsi, but she especially booked this paritcular airline because they have Pepsi and WHY OH WHY don't more airlines have Pepsi?

[/ QUOTE ]

oops confused you with Sig, sorry about that - oldtimers disease.

I love those old ladies - just remember, you will most likely outlive them!
 
I'd rather live fast 'n fun rather than a long long time bugging some stranger about cola preferences!
 
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