surreal1221
Well-Known Member
So SAPA isn't really working out then huh? 
Another Skywest ALPA Drive
- Thread starter mrivc211
- Start date
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
WTF? I listed that on there. Why did it get taken down? Thats reallllly weird because I know one of our mods wouldn't do that.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
So SAPA isn't really working out then huh?
Again, lets not take cheap shots at SAPA or the organizing pilots. I fully support EVERY single guy in SAPA. They do their best, and give it their honest effort. But unfortunately, they are limited at how much they can do. They know this.
If guys can help us by being a little more supportive it would give us an extra voice to convince the fence sitters.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Im talking about SkyWest joining ALPA but not the lists afterwards.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
So SAPA isn't really working out then huh?
As an organization, their hands are effectively tied. The system needs fixin' not the people that are in it. We have likely the best group of guys ever in SAPA but they can only do so much under the current structure.
In fact, I would love if most of the SAPA guys worked on the MEC when the times comes. Then their talents & passion could get some things done for this pilot group.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Okay, but can't you get a no whipsaw clause or something. I believe once PNCL bought Colgan the first order of business was getting ALPA on board so as to actually prevent whipsaw and transfer of ships and flying ala TSA and Go Jets. I also think this was a priority for the Delta/NWA merger.
Don't quote me as gospel, but I think PNCL management can't whipsaw it's two groups. If so I'm sure the same could be done for SKYW and ASA.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I'm finding it VERY interesting that the OO guys on here asking for everybody's support and to limit the bashing have also VERY clearly said that they would fight "tooth and nail" to prevent merging lists with ASA. I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. You're either in or you're out. Skywest Inc owns both of you and if you both belong to the same Union then you damn well should be the same pilot group. Even the *evil* Republic got that right.
So, again, I am all for supporting another drive at Skywest and seeing my dues dollars buy more pizza for you, but ya'll can't be just dipping your toes in the water.
So, again, I am all for supporting another drive at Skywest and seeing my dues dollars buy more pizza for you, but ya'll can't be just dipping your toes in the water.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
I'm fairly certain that was the message Surreal was going for. The problem w/ SAPA isn't the people running it.....the problem is they have no teeth. Anything, and I mean anything SAPA gets for your pilot group can be taken away, without notification, at management's whim.
SAPA, in it's current form, is a joke. It's meant to keep the sheep happy and complacent. I'm not ripping on the SAPA guys/gals; I'm sure they're doing a great job w/ the limited resourses
I fully support your efforts to bring ALPA on property and join w/ your fellow pilots over at ASA. Hell, I will volunteer some time to help out w/ your organizing drive. But I'm also w/ BobDDuck....either you're in...or not.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I agree. In for a penny in for a pound. If the only way SKYW can get enough yes votes is to fight any kind of equitable integration then maybe you guys shouldn't bother.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Maybe they can't transfer planes they currently have, Im not sure, but be sure that if one is cheaper and more planes come along that they will goto the cheaper labor group.
On a related note, has USAir and the former America West got it right yet?
Bumblebee
Commodore
I still don't have an answer to this same question... someone want to follow up?
There must be a good reason, right?
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Not sure why some of my fellow OO peeps are against a potential merger, the 'tooth & nail' comment came from just one poster I believe. If both groups want to merge, then so be it. I am honestly indifferent at this time, as that is a looong way away. While we can't discount the fact, we have more important things to worry about right now.
So again, if the times comes and we want to merge then right on. Otherwise, lets not put the cart before the horse here.
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'll bite - you should fight tooth and nail to merge the lists to prevent the whipsaw game that Skywest Inc is already playing with one of the pilot groups. During ASA's last contract negotiations, Skywest Inc threatened to take away the -900s that were designated by Delta for ASA if certain items weren't agreed to. The ASA negotiators did not give in and the -900s were transfered to Skywest's certificate. There are several more examples but at the moment the whipsaw is fairly lopsided.
Now, if Skywest becomes unionized, unless the lists are merged or really good scope/growth language is agreed to, you will see the groups played against each other instead of Inc just picking on one side.
As for the blended % seniority integration, why would that be fair? ASA and Skywest are the same age, have nearly identical aircraft types (ASA did fly the bro at one time) and identical career expectations. Why would strait DOH be unfair to either group?
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but then what would all the furloughees out there do in between trying to squeeze the last juicy detail out of the latest Delta's hiring while merging with Continental rumor?
Bumblebee
Commodore
287 aircraft@ SkW vs. 160@ ASA. They quit hiring before we did, so to be fair and maintain QOL consistancy, the list should be blended.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Bumblebee
Commodore
not trying to figure it out here, but trying to understand the concepts, and reasons for and against:
If, in fact we did a percantage of seniority, isn't that the most fair?
If we went DOH certain people would gain an advantage based on a/c and opportunity
If we stapled the list, then others would really get screwed
Wouldn't blending the list based on the percentage of seniority mean that you average out airplanes and crews then everyone basically stays the same?
That is my question.
These are issues I would like to understand.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Any sort of conversation on this that is even remotely intelligent would require an in-depth study of the two seniority lists. SLIs are very complicated, so knee-jerk judgments don't really work all that well.