Another Question For Military Flyers

derg

derg

Apparently a "terse" writer
Staff member
We had a jumpseater who spent his entire career in the 'Tweet' -- the T-37 as an IP. I really didn't think much of it but my captain, who was a former ANG F-16 driver thought it preposterous.

Is it really that bizarre to spend a 10-year career as a T-37 IP?
 
Yeah. They generally want you to have some "real world experience"--i.e., time in a "weapons system", even if it's a C-5. A couple friends of mine have encountered this situation: one was a C-20 (Learjet) pilot, happy as a pig in mud flying generals around. They finally said she needed to "earn her keep" and sent her off to C-5s. Another friend of mine got C-130s coming out of the pilot bank, but his wifey wasn't too happy with his being gone all the time so he did the UPT Instructor Pilot thing, managing two tours back to back before having to return to a Herk flight deck.

As I understand it, the problem with career AETC IP types is they start to lose sight of the big picture (did I just call AETC myopic???
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) and wind up lacking "street cred" among both students and pilots out in the force. This is a pretty solid argument against the first-assignment-instructor-pilot notion, no idea why they still do that.

And no, I'm not a military type, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
 
It's entirely possible. Up until a few years ago, there was a flight path in the USAF known as "career trainer", akin to professional CFI in the AF. You spent your career in Training Command, and that served as your AF job. Most of the people that got this job were those that were non-deployable for one reason or another, and many people also requested this duty. It's not around much anymore, but my IP in pilot training was an O-5 that was a career trainer following 1 tour in the B-52.

Aloft:

The C-21, C-9, and other "staff" type airplanes aren't considered Major Weapons Systems, unlike the C-5/C-141, etc. When one gets an assignment to OSA (Operational Support Airlift) after pilot training, it's assigned by personnel center as your job, plus a follow-on.......for example "C-21 to Randolph with a strategic airlift follow-on". You only fly OSA for 2 years, then move on to your follow-on airframe in whatever you're assigned (strat airlift, tactical airlift, tanker, etc). That's why your friend couldn't stay in C-21s.
 
Sounds like the airlines.

Whenever we have a jumpseater, one always asks, "when were you hired?" and then the next question is "and you're still flying the MD-88?" I'm just lazy!
 
IMO, that guy was a waste of flesh and resources. Talk about hiding out in the training command. I had my one tour as a tweet driver, but any more than that would have been "chicken" for the real job out there. Most people enjoy their AETC time as a break from the rest of the deployable AF, but the guys who try to stay to long are looked down upon.

I had a guy in my squadron who spent 4 years as an IP (after a C-130 tour), then asked for a short remote to Korea with a guaranteed follow on back to his UPT base. The assignment guys gave it to him, probably cause they had a hard time filling the remote. That is seven years at the same base.

Now here is the other side of the coin, the AF forces most guys to move every three years even if they love their current assignment. This leads to poor continuity and uprooting of families. Problem is, someone has to do the crappy assignment, and moving guys around all the time guarantees those crappy assignments will get filled.

So there are two sides to this story, but nonetheless, since we all lived under the crappy rules and bought the line, "needs of the AF," we looked down upon guys who were able to groove the system to stay put where they were happy.

That's a messed up system!
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Mike

If a bloke in a squadron wants a tour instructing, or a student is offered instruction as his or her first tour, what course or courses does he or she undertake? Also, having become an instructor do they all start on a particular fleet, eg T-37, or is that determined some other way, eg some to T-37, some to T-38, some to T-1?

Cheers

Tim
 
All pilots (new and experienced) go through a course called PIT (pilot instructor training). It is a 2.5 month course at Randolph AFB in San Antonio. The first third of the course, you learn how to fly or re-fly the trainer. The rest of the course, the instructors there play "student" and let you instruct them as they make mistakes.

It is a pretty good course, except that the instructors there will never put you in an unsafe situation like a student will. New students don't know how unsafe they are when they are learning.
 
So do they have certain qualifications on who they let fly Air Force 1? Like a certain rank and certain amount of many thousand hours?
 
Air Force One jobs are very hard to come by. You have to have 2500 hrs min, evaluator pilot experience in a major weapon system, and be a total company man.

The assignment process is different for a 89 AW job (Andrews AFB, Maryland). You have to submit a package with endorsements from your bosses. Also, they want all officer development schools complete (as far as you are qualified to start them).

I asked about this job at the 2000 hr mark, but was not an IP in a MWS (T-37 IP doesn't count). The handler told me I didn't stand much of a chance.

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So do they have certain qualifications on who they let fly Air Force 1? Like a certain rank and certain amount of many thousand hours?

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Politics play a role.

Lot of heavy transport/tanker time helps too. I nosed around it when I had just made Major, had about 3000 hours in the KC135 with 2000 as an IP/Evaluator.

Then decided to turn down the promotion and join the reserves as a full time Air Reserve Technician. One must have priorities…all I wanted to do was fly, fly, fly!

All that being said, different strokes for different folks all tempered by the "needs" of the Air Force. What is "in" on time may not be the next. From time to time there are excess pilots, other times shortages. Timing is everything...and I mean everything. One pilot can make a whole career in the training side of the house…another can’t get promoted. Depends on when you are where.

Your at the top of one weapons system when another comes along. You are prime for that. But if you've been in the same weapons system a little longer, you're too "old". And the opposite applies. You just got there, so you're a "newbie". By they time you move up to an "old head" that "new" system is old.

Put over this all the career "enhancing" jobs, i.e. staff types. And their timing too...move in to one at the wrong time and you're stuck...at the right time, BINGO you're off and running.

In the right weapons system when the war takes off...great. In the same one when the "action" is somewhere else...bad news.

All about timing! It's all about timing!

IMHO which falls in the two cents range!
 
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Sounds like the airlines.

Whenever we have a jumpseater, one always asks, "when were you hired?" and then the next question is "and you're still flying the MD-88?" I'm just lazy!

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I did it (Mad Dog F/0) for 8 years...for one and only one reason...."SENIORITY"!

Needed those dates off when I had NASCAR race tickets!

Same with 767 F/0...wanted to get the SFO, SAN, and MLU (just kidding) layovers...ORD really!

When I moved off the Mad Dog I could have held Captain……..in New York...gahhhh.....even some things pigs won't do! That's why I bid 767 F/O in DFW!

Bid Captain just so I could pad my retirement! Not as an ego trip!

But hey Doug...at least I stayed in DFW...you went to the UniBase...aka Crackertown, USA! Fort Widget on the Chattahoochee! The center of the known universe!
 
Looking back, I should have stayed in DFW for a lot of reasons. The ATL gig was a stop-gap measure until I decided to go to LAX or SLC long term (not move, but just as a base).

But Unibase/CrackertownUSA/Mecca mad dog flying is mind numbing.

ATL is everything us DFW miscreants talked about and more!
 
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