Another Plane Crash...This time in Lancaster PA

Damn, that is a gnarly crash yet the media seems to be reporting 5 survivors. Good on them for at least missing a high rise full of elderly people and making is (hopefully) survivable. They really prevented this thing from being a lot worse...assuming they had any control.

I've had doors pop open on a Cessna 152 and Piper Warrior (safety pilot on that one, not my door) once each. Each time was no big deal. The Cessna 152 flight was actually my one and only C150/152 flight and it was a checkout, and the door popped open a few seconds after rotation when I noted the ASI was not matching my butt and I did some brisk movements to see if the ASI needle would respond. Nope, but the door opened LOL. I couldn't get it to close, plane happened to have an AOA indicator, CFI basically said "OK, we keep flying" so we did the whole 2 hour flight with the wind rushing in and the ASI fluttering between 0-60 knots at random no matter what I was doing. The one in the Piper departing MRY was interesting because it was a very gusty day and during the takeoff roll, the radio started fading in and out and acting up then turned to static then right as we leave the ground, boom, papers all over and rushing wind. He delt with the door and I spent a few seconds playing around until I realized I realized that COMM2 worked, but only if I talked...and only faintly and with the knob pulled out and volume way up, could we hear ATC. Solved that just in time to accept the handoff from MRY tower and it felt like being a WW2 radio operator the whole way back to PAO lol. Both were good practice.

In the Tiger, you can actually open the canopy up until Vne. So I had flown with the top back plenty of times around SF and stuff. One time though, I closed the canopy wrong, and my checklist ended up somewhere in downtown San Jose along with several incredibly vulgar drawings I had made to shock my friends (including members of this site) and planned on pinning to random FBO walls during future travels. I had stuffed the drawings into the seat pocket and off they went. I don't even count that as a "door opening" event, as I the "door" can be opened in flight safely.
 
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ChasenSFO said:
Damn, that is a gnarly crash yet the media seems to be reporting 5 survivors. Good on them for at least missing a high rise full of elderly people and making is (hopefully) survivable. They really prevented this thing from being a lot worse...assuming they had any control.

I've had doors pop open on a Cessna 152 and Piper Warrior (safety pilot on that one, not my door) once each. Each time was no big deal. The Cessna 152 flight was actually my one and only C150/152 flight and it was a checkout, and the door popped open a few seconds after rotation when I noted the ASI was not matching my butt and I did some brisk movements to see if the ASI needle would respond. Nope, but the door opened LOL. I couldn't get it to close, plane happened to have an AOA indicator, CFI basically said "OK, we keep flying" so we did the whole 2 hour flight with the wind rushing in and the ASI fluttering between 0-60 knots at random no matter what I was doing. The one in the Piper departing MRY was interesting because it was a very gusty day and during the takeoff roll, the radio started fading in and out and acting up then turned to static then right as we leave the ground, boom, papers all over and rushing wind. He delt with the door and I spent a few seconds playing around until I realized I realized that COMM2 worked, but only if I talked...and only faintly and with the knob pulled out and volume way up, could we hear ATC. Solved that just in time to accept the handoff from MRY tower and it felt like being a WW2 radio operator the whole way back to PAO lol. Both were good practice.

In the Tiger, you can actually open the canopy up until Vne. So I had flown with the top back plenty of times around SF and stuff. One time though, I closed the canopy wrong, and my checklist ended up somewhere in downtown San Jose along with several incredibly vulgar drawings I had made to shock my friends (including members of this site) and planned on pinning to random FBO walls during future travels. I had stuffed the drawings into the seat pocket and off they went. I don't even count that as a "door opening" event, as I the "door" can be opened in flight safely.
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What the what? The CFI said keep going and you flew two hours with an open door???

That CFI was out for money and hours. I would have turned around, landed, secure the door and then continued the lesson. That's what happened when the engine cover on the DA40 I was flying opened. My CFI said stay in the pattern. He called up tower to advice and we landed. Secured the engine cover and got back in the cue for takeoff.
 
I've had the nose baggage door on the Seneca pop open more than once. I have had the top door latches on several Pipers fail. I've had an engine cover door on a Warrior pop open, and I don't think I've ever flow a 152 or 172 where the doors actually stayed shut at all.

All are startling, but ultimately non-events. The airplane still flies. It's still lands normally. Fly the damned plane, land, fix the problem.

What does make my blood pressure rise is ice. Hate that stuff. Picked a little up the other day west of ALB.
 

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ctab5060X said:
Had a door pop open on a loaded Aztec one night. Had the gent in the right seat hold it slightly ajar to help with performance. Informed tower what happened and asked for a stop and go. Stopped, closed the door, and continued our work for the night.
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Having seen how the latch mechanism works inside an Apache door, I don't have much confidence in it.

I had one pop open in flight not too long ago. Needed an A&P to adjust the cable to the latch to fix it. Anyway, I've had doors pop open on lots of planes, has always been a non-event up until that point. The Apache door was loud, violent, and sudden when it let go. With the amount of yaw it produced, felt more like losing an engine than a door popping open. Also seemed like the propwash pulls it open rather than airflow keeping it against the fuselage.
 
Speaking of training mishaps, when I first attempted to get my PPL I was a fresh faced young line guy at KBUR and one of our customers allowed me to fly his airplane (a '56 172 with venturis hanging off the side) for free as long I topped it off with fuel and oil (N5192A, the same guy stills owns it and I think he still keeps it at KBUR). The problem is even in the early '90s it was a fairly old airplane and sometimes things break. So the instructor and I took off to go to KWHP for some pattern work, everything was going fine, I'd done three or four patterns, some were touch and goes others were full stop/taxi back. The last one was going to be a full stop because we wanted the time during taxi back to coordinate the return back to KBUR from KWHP (it's less than five miles). Well on that particular day, on that particular landing the right brake announced it was not a fan of this repeated abuse and refused to comply and I might've gotten a bit of grass in the wheel pants if you know what I mean. So from that point on I learned about taxiing without using brakes and only making left turns on the ground, we got back to Burbank and all was well. A few weeks later we took off for Agua Dulce (L70) for some cross country training and chili dogs. Everything was perfect, the airplane seemed fine, the weather was good, and we landed and went to get a bite to eat. When we were leaving the airplane was recalcitrant, turning the key to start was having very little effect on the spinny thing up front. We had a dead battery (I'm quite certain I forgot to turn something off and the battery drained as we enjoyed our iced tea and chili dogs). At this point in my life I was in A/P school and had just gone through having to actually hand prop an airplane to start it, I knew that the airplane would start if I'd just swing the prop fast enough. Happily back then Agua Dulce had a vibrant aviation community and a pelican came over and asked what I thought the issue was, I explained it, he agreed and offered to swing the prop for me. I'm not going to say it started on the first try or even the second but the venerable O-300 did light off eventually and once again we went back to KBUR. I guess the point of all of this is if you want to learn to fly there are lots of avenues, some are more reliable but offer less exposure to failure. Years later I was flying a Warrior back from KSBP to KBUR after a graduation and the alternator belt decided to give up, the airplane was flying perfectly but it wasn't generating voltage to power the avionics and it smelled like burnt rubber in the cockpit so although I didn't declare an emergency I did cancel flight following and dropped from 8500' to Paso Robles about 6 miles away. My step brother thought it was a pretty wild ride on the way down, full left and full right? Pissed off the folks doing Young Eagles rides but I wanted to be on the ground immediately, something was getting hot and their joy rides needed to wait until I got us back onto the ground. The place I'd rented the plane from acted as if I was a problem and I should just continue my flight. I said no I'm not intentionally flying into busy airspace knowing I'm going to lose my radios halfway there. 5 hours later another Warrior came and picked us up, and then they sent a mechanic to pull the prop and replace the belt. It's been a journey.
 
MikeD said:
Just had a door pop open the other night while headed high speed to a vehicle chase on the interstate. Turns out, at high speed and with the negative AOA pitch angle of the fuselage at high speeds, the relative wind is enough to hit the door handle with such force and at such an angle, to push it down and to the unlatched position, popping the door open. Granted, it only opens about an inch, as the same relative wind keeps it streamlined to the general closed position to where it’s merely ajar. But i didn’t know what stress was being placed on the door hinges as they aren’t normally being pulled laterally. Pulled the bird into a quick climb to bleed speed to about 5 knts to kill the relative wind as I let the nose fall down back towards the horizon, pulled the door closed and latched at the same time, transitioned to an accelerating descent and continued, just keeping things about 10 knots slower than before. Interesting lesson learned.
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I guess I always viewed these types of accidents in a way like Eastern 401 - get focused on the wrong thing - that is not a high risk safety issue - and lose track of what you're doing flying the airplane.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
What the what? The CFI said keep going and you flew two hours with an open door???

That CFI was out for money and hours. I would have turned around, landed, secure the door and then continued the lesson. That's what happened when the engine cover on the DA40 I was flying opened. My CFI said stay in the pattern. He called up tower to advice and we landed. Secured the engine cover and got back in the cue for takeoff.
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Meh, it was great experience. I'm glad I did it, 2 hours with wind and noise and a heavy 152 and no ASI yet I got a satisfactory check out and learned a lot. It never felt dangerous. But it only further enforced my negative opinion of 152s and 162s. No thx.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Meh, it was great experience. I'm glad I did it, 2 hours with wind and noise and a heavy 152 and no ASI yet I got a satisfactory check out and learned a lot. It never felt dangerous. But it only further enforced my negative opinion of 152s and 162s. No thx.
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Surely you’ve flown a Cub with the door/ window open? They have to be flown with the door open, it’s state law.
 
Fixtur said:
I've had the nose baggage door on the Seneca pop open more than once. I have had the top door latches on several Pipers fail. I've had an engine cover door on a Warrior pop open, and I don't think I've ever flow a 152 or 172 where the doors actually stayed shut at all.

All are startling, but ultimately non-events. The airplane still flies. It's still lands normally. Fly the damned plane, land, fix the problem.

What does make my blood pressure rise is ice. Hate that stuff. Picked a little up the other day west of ALB.
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Is that your paying gig or personal plane? You need to get you a gig where heated wings are a thing. Not a fan of boots. Especially at the speeds you’re flying there my friend.
 
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