Another F-22 crash

Apophis said:
Wow. Really hope it's not related to the oxygen system again.
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Given the (sparse) details in the article, it sounds like it went down in the approach/pattern environment. That would not likely be OBOGS in my mind.
 
Interesting, I am glad the pilot was able to eject safely. Wonder how much the military will even come out and actually say what happened?


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Muff3n said:
Wonder how much the military will even come out and actually say what happened?
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With the media spotlight on the Raptor, who knows, but in general, military mishap aviation investigations are not released in any way to the public.
 
I've got a buddy flying those on the east coast. Billy. Biiiiiillly Billy Billy.
 
///AMG said:
Given the (sparse) details in the article, it sounds like it went down in the approach/pattern environment. That would not likely be OBOGS in my mind.
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+1. Accidents in the vicinity of the field tend to be engine and/or flight control related for tactical military aircraft.
 
Why can't they mod the OBOGS system that when it cuts off it automatically activates the emergency system. They could also change it out to LOX too.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Why can't they mod the OBOGS system that when it cuts off it automatically activates the emergency system. They could also change it out to LOX too.
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As far as I know, there's never been a problem with the OBOGS turning "off" in the Raptor. It's been a problem of elements other than clean and oxygen-sufficient air being pumped into the pilot's face. Additionally, at pattern altitude the OBOGS system isn't likely to be producing much in the way of anything. I'm no expert on the Raptor's system, but the OBOGS systems I'm familiar with don't start producing any higher levels of O2 (than that found at ground level, that is) until climbing to higher altitudes or the pilot manually selects 100% O2.
 
The Alaska Crash had the OBOGS system shutdown which set off a chain of event killing the pilot and destroying the aircraft. They also found the a design flaw in where the the emergency O2 activation ring was placed and its size.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/f-22-raptor-air-force-accident-lockheed.html

BTW I agree that the in the pattern accident, the OBOGS system probably wasn't at fault. I would wager it was a control problem or serious engine problem. Time will tell and more importantly the pilot made it out alive.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
The Alaska Crash had the OBOGS system shutdown which set off a chain of event killing the pilot and destroying the aircraft. They also found the a design flaw in where the the emergency O2 activation ring was placed and its size.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/f-22-raptor-air-force-accident-lockheed.html

BTW I agree that the in the pattern accident, the OBOGS system probably wasn't at fault. I would wager it was a control problem or serious engine problem. Time will tell and more importantly the pilot made it out alive.
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Thanks for the link. That was a good read. Sounds like a pretty bad day at work. Losing cabin pressure and OBOGS at that altitude is a no s-er. I would be real surprised if the guy wasn't at least moderately hypoxic almost immediately in that situation......he was high enough that DCS was also probably almost a guarantee......people do real weird stuff (or nothing at all) in that kind of environment. I got hypoxic when my cabin pressure dumped at 37000 ft, and not only did I have to be coaxed by another guy in the flight into descending, but I never pulled the green (emerg oxygen) ring. Complete violation of NATOPS, and I got lucky, but it was a good lesson to be learned. He did the second thing I would have done in his situation.......you do a split S and get the hell down to below 10,000 ft as quickly as humanly possible, regardless of what you are doing in the jet at the time. Unfortunately he didn't do the first thing (I didn't either) that would have likely saved his life.....ie pull the ring and get oxygen back to the brain. I guarantee that every mistake he made after that (late recognition of spacial D, late dive recovery, etc) was a result of not breathing air. Not to mention that night on goggles can be quite disorienting. I remember a time flying with my previous skipper......we had just dropped some LGTR's, and we were coming off target in a decently aggressive maneuver for nighttime, and I ended up in kind of a weird position below him to maintain sight (small FOV with the goggles). Somehow I ended up in a 110-120 deg overbank in the process, and as I pulled harder to close the distance between us, I was actually descending more and more inverted into the ground. Probably lost almost 5k feet before I realized what was going on and got back on the instruments/HUD. Scared the crap out of me. Night is always hard work.
 
He was an alumni of my university and flight school. TMK his death was not in vain. I am told they learned form accident and modified emer O2 ring. I read that the original design was hard to find and manipulate at night with arctic flying gear on. I have seen articles, that is is now bigger and easier to find. It just pisses me off on how much they blamed this on him, like breathing isn't important and altitude taking your mask TMK won't do crap for ya... I doubt you guys are pressurized to less than a 10000 ft cabin.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
I doubt you guys are pressurized to less than a 10000 ft cabin.
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No idea about the Raptor, but the Hornet has 8k cabin alt until you hit the mid 20's, then it starts getting worse. That being said, the guy in this mishap lost all cabin pressure at 51,800 ft, since the jet shut off his bleeds for a bleed air leak. We have a similar system in my aircraft as well, though we don't spend as much time in the moronosphere as they do in the Raptor.
 
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