z987k
Well-Known Member
Roaming, do you live in 1998 or do you travel out of country a lot?
Android for EFB instead of iPad?
- Thread starter Treblesum81
- Start date
Roaming, do you live in 1998 or do you travel out of country a lot?
Treblesum81
Well-Known Member
Wait... Its not 1998?!?!?!
Not out of the country, but I've found that my Sprint phone goes into data roaming quite a bit when you start leaving the major metro areas.
z987k
Well-Known Member
That sucks. I had no idea you could still roam on cell phones within the US. I know I can't. Even AK and HI
Treblesum81
Well-Known Member
I'm not ruling out that its just sprint since they've been cutting every corner possible to keep unlimited data going. That being said, just to open up a data only line at Verizon would almost double my monthly cell bill, which isn't something I'm all that interested in doing...
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
The AT&T ipad plan used to start at $20-30 for a certain data amount per month. If you see a tablet plan with a contract it's generally only going to save you $100 dollars or so off retail. If you buy a tablet at reatail (with out a contract) you can turn the mobile data on and off, month to month as much as you want. It also doesn't have to be linked to your cellphone plan in any way. I'm sure you could find some thing cheaper than $50 a month. You also don't have to have an active plan to use it as a wifi only device. If you're unsure if you would use the cellular data I would still buy one that's capable. It may come in handy on a long road trip or if you move to a new place and don't have wifi hooked up yet. I won't buy a tablet without the capability, and now LTE is a lot more prevalent I tend to use it more often then the crappy hotel wifi. I also have a grandfathered unlimited data plan for $30 a month. You'd have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. When I sold my ipad I put my SIM card in the work one so I could keep the plan.
usphsfnp
Well-Known Member
I have an ipad 10" that I've been using for a couple of years. It runs Foreflight which is nice, and I like it the best, probably since it's the first app I started using (primacy) I tried WingX on the ipad, but it didn't work the same way my brain did, but lots of people like it better than Foreflight. Garmin Pilot will run on iOS and Android, and you can have a subscription for two devices (Foreflight will do a combination of up to 2 ipads and other iOS devices.) Garmin is less advanced on Android than iOS, but they are developing for Android, which is nice. I also have a Nexus 7, which I don't use as much since I don't have a data plan for it. You don't realize how much you like mobile data until you don't have it anymore!
I find the 7 inch a nice size for maneuvering in the cockpit of the mighty 172, but a little small to read compared to the 10" ipad. Also, I just got the Stratus II for Foreflight for inflight weather and traffic... although the traffic is pretty lean.
All in all, I lean toward Android devices (my phone is an S3) and the only reason I EVER got an ipad was for Foreflight, so if I didn't know any different I don't think you'd be missing anything with a Nexus device running Garmin Pilot.
I find the 7 inch a nice size for maneuvering in the cockpit of the mighty 172, but a little small to read compared to the 10" ipad. Also, I just got the Stratus II for Foreflight for inflight weather and traffic... although the traffic is pretty lean.
All in all, I lean toward Android devices (my phone is an S3) and the only reason I EVER got an ipad was for Foreflight, so if I didn't know any different I don't think you'd be missing anything with a Nexus device running Garmin Pilot.
Calvin and Hobbs Meter
Well-Known Member
Treblesum81
Currently I am running around with a Galaxy Note 3 cell phone, which is only a couple inches smaller than the iPad Mini. I LOVE my phone, it is basically a tablet that fits in my pocket, and it's a powerhouse! The aviation apps I can get on my Note 3 are no different that what you would be able to get on the Note tablet. I have some pretty awesome weather apps on my Note, as well as every approach plate available in the USA (flight plan.com app is great!) on my android phone. I can tell you from a couple years of experience with android devices, there are a limited amount of aviation apps available for android. Reason being, there are a TON of devices (hardware) that run android (operating system). Problem is, developers can't keep up with making the applications (e.g. software) work on every single device that is approved to run android. Because of that liability, no one in their right mind is currently aiming to make complicated aviation products for android. All of the current android apps are on the level of C++ programing. Quite simply, running on android is a risk.
So on that note, the FAA is more apt to accept the iPad and it's tried and true applications for use as an EFB. It's not a game any one wants to be playing; trying to figure out if every hardware variant out there (android) is going to work for "X" or "Y" program. Apple on the other hand is very strict, and because of that lends it's self towards being the go to device for aviation. Additionally, the iPad (4 variants) have been tested for rapid decompression, and the data is readily available for the FAA to look at, UNLIKE the 100+ android devices out there.
My company just started our 6 month iPad trial recently before we become 100% approved for EFB (iPad) usage under part 135 ops. It's important to note, our company moves slow. The reason I mention that is to point out that about a year or so back when we started discussing using the iPad for EFB use we all bought/recieved iPads (about 20 pilots). At that time about 1/3 of our pilots started using the Jeppesen iPad products, while the rest (including myself) started using ForeFlight. As of today, every pilot in our company has switched to ForeFlight (and is now a company requirement per our OpSpecs). Overall, I think this is because of the cost of the software (ForeFlight vs Jeppesen), and possibly due to ease of use between the two programs (ForeFlight has been coming out with some pretty sweet functions on a constant basis).
Plain and simple, if your company decides to use ForeFlight as your EFB software, it's not ever going to be offered on an Android product for the reasons mentioned above (the developers are not willing to work with 100+ devices), so don't even go there.
On a side note, personally I'm am not so sure I would want an "open source" device to be used as my primary means of navigation while in the air anyways. I would lean towards the most restrictive device as far as that is concerned. I think that the more "secure" option would be better in that regard.
If you do lean towards the iPad (recommended!), I would most definitely purchase a 3G/4G version. Reason being, the WiFI only option does not have the GPS chip, and you cannot get geo referenced "homing" on top of your approach plate, high, or low en-route charts in ForeFlight. Allthough under part 135/121 operations, the geo referenced beacon is not authorized for use (as a mean of determining your ships location) and is *required* to be deactivated during 135/121 ops; though, under part 91 the geo referenced beacon is an AMAZING piece of situational awareness. Also, during our most recnt company meeting, we have discussed making the 64GB iPad a requirement, being that the iPads memory has already been observed as being a limiting factor as far as the device is concerned. Once we add our GOM, OpSpecs, additional manuals, external applications, and ovbiously ForeFlight, as well as any other training publication we decide to load on the device, memory will (and has already been for some of our pilots will lower memory limits) be taxed.
Lastly, we have been required by the FAA to stow our iPad during takeoff and and landing (funny because I don't remember ever being required to put the NACO/NOS charts away when landing). The full sized iPad has gotten in the way in out smaller cockpits during rotation/flare, and does not "bend" like the paper charts would if they were in the way of the controls. With that in mind, the iPad mini lends its self towards not being such an occupational hazard in that regard. But I would say the lager iPad lends it's self to being a better device when looking at highs and lows (and arguably approach plates) because of the larger viewing area. The mini isn't as bright at night, which would be a huge plus (the full size iPad is moderately bright in that regard.)
I wouldn't worry about getting a data plan. You can do all of your updates via WiFi, and it's not like you are going to utilize the data plan while in the air anyways. I piggyback off of my cellphones data plan when I want to used the iPad when free WiFi isn't available. I also update all of my charts on the iPad at home on my personal WiFi.
Currently I am running around with a Galaxy Note 3 cell phone, which is only a couple inches smaller than the iPad Mini. I LOVE my phone, it is basically a tablet that fits in my pocket, and it's a powerhouse! The aviation apps I can get on my Note 3 are no different that what you would be able to get on the Note tablet. I have some pretty awesome weather apps on my Note, as well as every approach plate available in the USA (flight plan.com app is great!) on my android phone. I can tell you from a couple years of experience with android devices, there are a limited amount of aviation apps available for android. Reason being, there are a TON of devices (hardware) that run android (operating system). Problem is, developers can't keep up with making the applications (e.g. software) work on every single device that is approved to run android. Because of that liability, no one in their right mind is currently aiming to make complicated aviation products for android. All of the current android apps are on the level of C++ programing. Quite simply, running on android is a risk.
So on that note, the FAA is more apt to accept the iPad and it's tried and true applications for use as an EFB. It's not a game any one wants to be playing; trying to figure out if every hardware variant out there (android) is going to work for "X" or "Y" program. Apple on the other hand is very strict, and because of that lends it's self towards being the go to device for aviation. Additionally, the iPad (4 variants) have been tested for rapid decompression, and the data is readily available for the FAA to look at, UNLIKE the 100+ android devices out there.
My company just started our 6 month iPad trial recently before we become 100% approved for EFB (iPad) usage under part 135 ops. It's important to note, our company moves slow. The reason I mention that is to point out that about a year or so back when we started discussing using the iPad for EFB use we all bought/recieved iPads (about 20 pilots). At that time about 1/3 of our pilots started using the Jeppesen iPad products, while the rest (including myself) started using ForeFlight. As of today, every pilot in our company has switched to ForeFlight (and is now a company requirement per our OpSpecs). Overall, I think this is because of the cost of the software (ForeFlight vs Jeppesen), and possibly due to ease of use between the two programs (ForeFlight has been coming out with some pretty sweet functions on a constant basis).
Plain and simple, if your company decides to use ForeFlight as your EFB software, it's not ever going to be offered on an Android product for the reasons mentioned above (the developers are not willing to work with 100+ devices), so don't even go there.
On a side note, personally I'm am not so sure I would want an "open source" device to be used as my primary means of navigation while in the air anyways. I would lean towards the most restrictive device as far as that is concerned. I think that the more "secure" option would be better in that regard.
If you do lean towards the iPad (recommended!), I would most definitely purchase a 3G/4G version. Reason being, the WiFI only option does not have the GPS chip, and you cannot get geo referenced "homing" on top of your approach plate, high, or low en-route charts in ForeFlight. Allthough under part 135/121 operations, the geo referenced beacon is not authorized for use (as a mean of determining your ships location) and is *required* to be deactivated during 135/121 ops; though, under part 91 the geo referenced beacon is an AMAZING piece of situational awareness. Also, during our most recnt company meeting, we have discussed making the 64GB iPad a requirement, being that the iPads memory has already been observed as being a limiting factor as far as the device is concerned. Once we add our GOM, OpSpecs, additional manuals, external applications, and ovbiously ForeFlight, as well as any other training publication we decide to load on the device, memory will (and has already been for some of our pilots will lower memory limits) be taxed.
Lastly, we have been required by the FAA to stow our iPad during takeoff and and landing (funny because I don't remember ever being required to put the NACO/NOS charts away when landing). The full sized iPad has gotten in the way in out smaller cockpits during rotation/flare, and does not "bend" like the paper charts would if they were in the way of the controls. With that in mind, the iPad mini lends its self towards not being such an occupational hazard in that regard. But I would say the lager iPad lends it's self to being a better device when looking at highs and lows (and arguably approach plates) because of the larger viewing area. The mini isn't as bright at night, which would be a huge plus (the full size iPad is moderately bright in that regard.)
I wouldn't worry about getting a data plan. You can do all of your updates via WiFi, and it's not like you are going to utilize the data plan while in the air anyways. I piggyback off of my cellphones data plan when I want to used the iPad when free WiFi isn't available. I also update all of my charts on the iPad at home on my personal WiFi.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
But it does have a micro USB port. You can pick up a micro to normal USB dongle adapter for a few bucks and then once rooted can simply plug in a USB memory stick and you are good to go. I have a 12 gig stick labeled "music" and another labeled "movies". Never had a problem with storage space.
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
The person you talked to didn't know what they were talking about. I encountered the same problem when I first got my tablet. I talked to two people who flat out told me I couldn't do it. They were idiots. I called again and got someone different who said, "no problem, no contract data for $20 per month, billed to credit card, start/stop anytime you want", gave them the cellular ID and it's worked great ever since. I just checked Verizon's web site and it's still available for any tablet. Also, if you already have a Verizon phone and data plan you can use their share data plan to spread your data plan across multiple devices.
As for buying new vs used/refurb, if you want to be tied to a contract... well, that's your call.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
Yeah, the Tab 2 10.1. I had been using the app for about 45 minutes that day, about four months since I downloaded it.
z987k
Well-Known Member
If you want something secure, then you'd want it open source.
Calvin and Hobbs Meter
Well-Known Member
Well we are all screwed no matter what, right? http://forums.jetcareers.com/thread...can-hack-an-entire-plane.172501/#post-2080742
Open source is "arguably" less secure, since it's, well, open.
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Uhhhhhhm no.
z987k
Well-Known Member
No, not even close.
Do you know what open source means? I have a feeling the general public has no idea.
Treblesum81
Well-Known Member
Hence the overall popularity of Apple...
Calvin and Hobbs Meter
Well-Known Member
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/O/open_source.html
Oh I understand what it means, which is why I said "arguably". Just try telling that to the FAA. =)
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
Bunches of airplane geeks arguing about religious issues in computing? Oh god, it burns. 
Calvin and Hobbs Meter
Well-Known Member
I even put "secure" in quotes and still got put on the witness stand!Bunches of airplane geeks arguing about religious issues in computing? Oh god, it burns.
.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Bunches of airplane geeks arguing about religious issues in computing? Oh god, it burns.