And USA Today's vendetta against GA continues..

[MikeD]

I always figured private airports in fly-in communities DID have to pay for everything themselves, go figure.

I don't really see an issue with the article, you can't really say they're biast because airlines don't fly there when most of us GA pilots can't even fly into these private airfields.

or, they allow they as "public use" because they have to, because they've had some tax money go into them, but they call them "limited public use" and have more draconian operating regs there than a normal airport.

Take Stellar Airpark in AZ for example. Is public because it has to be, even though its a private field. It's an airpark airport with business on the east end, and the 10,000 sq ft homes with hangars and garages on the west end for the uber-rich who have airplanes. However, there are these restrictions, among others there:

- TRAINING AIRCRAFT TGL PROHIBITED. HELICOPTER TRAINING PROHIBITED.
- PARALLEL TWY WEST OF RY 17/35 RESTRICTED; HOMEOWNERS USE ONLY, ALL OTHER TRAFFIC USE PARALLEL TWY EAST OF RY 17/35.
- AVOID OVERFLIGHT OF NOISE SENSITIVE AREAS WEST OF RY 17/35 AND NORTH OF AIRPORT
- COMMERCIAL AND STUDENT TRAINING OPERATIONS BY PERMIT ONLY.
- PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES IN VFR CONDITIONS NOT AUTHORIZED.

So while they're public use because they have to be, they want the GA "riff raff" there to the least extent possible, bothering them and making noise around their hangar-homes there. I for one, wouldn't want any public tax dollars going to an airport with these kinds of restrictions......let them fund themselves, then they can remain private and have all the restrictions they like, such that many other private "airpark" airports have. I'd personally rather have my tax dollars going to GA airports that matter and have a genuine use to the GA "public".

 

[Patrick]

or, they allow they as "public use" because they have to, because they've had some tax money go into them, but they call them "limited public use" and have more draconian operating regs there than a normal airport.

Take Stellar Airpark in AZ for example. Is public because it has to be, even though its a private field. It's an airpark airport with business on the east end, and the 10,000 sq ft homes with hangars and garages on the west end for the uber-rich who have airplanes. However, there are these restrictions, among others there:

- TRAINING AIRCRAFT TGL PROHIBITED. HELICOPTER TRAINING PROHIBITED.
- PARALLEL TWY WEST OF RY 17/35 RESTRICTED; HOMEOWNERS USE ONLY, ALL OTHER TRAFFIC USE PARALLEL TWY EAST OF RY 17/35.
- AVOID OVERFLIGHT OF NOISE SENSITIVE AREAS WEST OF RY 17/35 AND NORTH OF AIRPORT
- COMMERCIAL AND STUDENT TRAINING OPERATIONS BY PERMIT ONLY.
- PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APPROACHES IN VFR CONDITIONS NOT AUTHORIZED.

So while they're public use because they have to be, they want the GA "riff raff" there to the least extent possible, bothering them and making noise around their hangar-homes there. I for one, wouldn't want any public tax dollars going to an airport with these kinds of restrictions......let them fund themselves, then they can remain private and have all the restrictions they like, such that many other private "airpark" airports have. I'd personally rather have my tax dollars going to GA airports that matter and have a genuine use to the GA "public".

I'd agree.

 

[deek]

so what are the ramifications if one were to do all the things not allowed at that airport? It is an FAA fine, or licenses suspension?

 

[Roger, Roger]

so what are the ramifications if one were to do all the things not allowed at that airport? It is an FAA fine, or licenses suspension?

No, a mob of angry NIMBYs on the runway with pitchforks and torches.

 

[BobDDuck]

Stellar was/is the biggest bunch of annoying-give-GA-a-bad-name group as I've ever seen. They used to send a rep to the Phoenix Flight Training Workgroup meetings and while we'd try to work out congestion and radio issues out of DVT or the South Practice Area, they'd be complaining about the number of training aircraft coming into "their" airport. I'm not normally a vindictive person, but I took great pleasure in doing low approaches at night with the props all the way forward at Stellar.

 

[CAP_Flyer]

I read the whole article AND all the comments that followed it. I have to admit that as I was reading the article, I was just kind of grudgingly admitting that this kind of use of tax dollars to fund an airpart is ridiculus. But there's ALWAYS the thing of "Tell me the results you want, and I'll find the research to support it." I had to reluctantly admit that maybe USAToday got this one right this time...UNTIL....I started reading the comments after the article.

Of particular interest was the one from the gentleman who has known Brodie for years saying that Frank couldn't have picked an example so opposite to the bias he's trying to convey than Brodie. I would imagine that there's some truth to that. I can't also imagine that USAToday went to Brodie and said, "Hello, we'd like to do an article on your airport so that we can hold you in the spotlight of tax dollar wastage." There are always two sides of every story and the truth is somewhere in between. But the fact that Thomas Frank has written a series of articles that HAVE fueled pilots' ire really says something about his credibility. It's unfortunate that the articles and the assault on GA is aimed at the aviation-ignorant, and even more unfortunate that those are in the vast majority.

I have always been VERY cautious about putting faith in any news articles ever since 15 years ago, as a WWII Reenactor putting on a public living history display at the Cantigny Museum in Illinois, we had a reporter come up to us. He asked good questions, took photos of us, we told him about the good things we did about educating the public about what WWII veterans did for us, and that it's important to honor the veterans and the fallen in that war and any war. A week later, what appears in the paper? Pictures of the German Reenactors in front of swastika flags and the article wanted to know how could a paramilitary group "promoting anti-semitism" be allowed on grounds that are paid for with public funds. There wasn't one mention of veterans or the good things that were done by our living history event. That was a HUGE education to me, and I've avoided talking to the press whenever I possibly can. I have a hunch that Brodie was ambushed by this article, and I don't support that kind of journalism.

On the other hand, I'm with many of you here that I don't believe that the airparks that cater to the hangar homes should be receiving federal funding. I agree that fly-in communities do little to stimulate the economy other than the property taxes on the expensive homes that typically surround these air strips.

 

[MikeD]

I have always been VERY cautious about putting faith in any news articles ever since 15 years ago, as a WWII Reenactor putting on a public living history display at the Cantigny Museum in Illinois, we had a reporter come up to us. He asked good questions, took photos of us, we told him about the good things we did about educating the public about what WWII veterans did for us, and that it's important to honor the veterans and the fallen in that war and any war. A week later, what appears in the paper? Pictures of the German Reenactors in front of swastika flags and the article wanted to know how could a paramilitary group "promoting anti-semitism" be allowed on grounds that are paid for with public funds. There wasn't one mention of veterans or the good things that were done by our living history event. That was a HUGE education to me, and I've avoided talking to the press whenever I possibly can. I have a hunch that Brodie was ambushed by this article, and I don't support that kind of journalism.

I fully agree that there's a lot of animosity towards the "rich people of GA" that newspapers generally bias against, becuase thats the *perception* the public has of GA. I also try to read each article that comes out and judge it on its indivdual merits, while sifting through the assorted chaff that may or may not be there.

On the other hand, I'm with many of you here that I don't believe that the airparks that cater to the hangar homes should be receiving federal funding. I agree that fly-in communities do little to stimulate the economy other than the property taxes on the expensive homes that typically surround these air strips.

And this is but one segment of the whole GA subject. THIS particular subject about GA is the one I fully agree about......these are the particular people that "fill the stereotype", if you will, of the "rich GA pilot". And for these airpark communities (ones that actually are doing so....to be perfectly fair, not all of them are), to want public tax dollars to fund items for them that they want for themselves, or to take it and then give a weak-ass "limited public use" in order to feign compliance with the law, is crap. These are the people giving GA a bad name, and as BobDDuck mentioned and has personally witnessed.

 

[MikeD]

Stellar was/is the biggest bunch of annoying-give-GA-a-bad-name group as I've ever seen. They used to send a rep to the Phoenix Flight Training Workgroup meetings and while we'd try to work out congestion and radio issues out of DVT or the South Practice Area, they'd be complaining about the number of training aircraft coming into "their" airport. I'm not normally a vindictive person, but I took great pleasure in doing low approaches at night with the props all the way forward at Stellar.

Oh man.....don't get me started on Stellar. And Stellar wasn't always this way. My first 135 cargo job was based out of there, and at the time ('94), the place was fairly friendly.......just try and exercise some basic consideration for noise.....but there weren't the NOTAMd restrictions you see now. T&Gs were fine, shooting the VOR-A for practice was fine, multiple patterns were fine. As I was leaving that job is when I really started to notice things shifting, and thats when all this seemingly started.

So now, Stellar has earned and maintained the "annoying-give-GA-a-bad-name" rap. And thats because they completely fit the stereotype of the "rich GA pilot" to the public. That place just completely annoys me. And I'm with you on the vindictiveness, for that place.......just keep working the pattern comm out, in the middle of the night. And insure to keep the props unsynced.

Many private airparks in AZ are just that: private. They aren't public use and pretty much do their own thing. Stellar, however, gives this exact impression of what ALL of GA is to the non-flying public, thus making preserving GA apart from them, difficult: