An Apology to Colgan Pilot on Jetcareers

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ColganFO

ColganFO

New Member
Dear, Colgan Employees

I sincerely apoligize from my statements and comments. Looking back I can see how at a glance my words appeared arrogant and insensitive to other pilots here who have worked hard. My intentions were never to gloat, and I promise I am not jumping seniority on people. I would turn it down hands down if it meant cutting in line.
Irregardless I would still like to remain on Jetcareers, and all I ask is that my peers at Colgan can still accept as one of them and not the enemy.
Our pilot group is too small to have enemies, and I truly believe we should lean towards being a tighly-knit group and not a loose affilation of pilots.

Sincerely, me
 
as far as i know, there was never a question about you not staying a JC member...you might have a bit more to prove now and that might be a bit hard to tackle for a while but over time, i think you can overcome if your being sincere...

me, myself, i have no qualms with ya! our major rules are "don't troll", "don't lie", "don't make us prove you wrong" (except in the lav).. haha

Happy Posting! :)
 
Kristie said:
our major rules are "don't troll", "don't lie", "don't make us prove you wrong" (except in the lav).. haha
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Going to Gulfstream! Pilot's get paid too much, I would do it for free! Any opinions?

I am currently fully clothed.

I am a secret Moderator.

There, I broke all of the rules in one post! :D
 
I think you came accross very politely and the other Colgan pilots jumped on you awfully hard - I personally thought it was a poor performance on their behalf, I would never talk to my colleague in such a way.
 
Thank you I money for your kind words.
I'm really not a big fan of hosility and negativity. I know we all get caught up in our work and routine being pilots and such, but I think its important that we keep a mutual respect for one another. I think working together we can accomplish alot more than by bashing each other arguing about which company is better, or which plane is better.
Thanks again
 
I_Money said:
I think you came accross very politely and the other Colgan pilots jumped on you awfully hard - I personally thought it was a poor performance on their behalf, I would never talk to my colleague in such a way.
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Sorry Iain, but I've gotta disagree with you there. whne you come on a board almost all out bragging about skipping by your fellow employees several months senior to you getting an interview or uograde class date you deserve the flak you get. On top of that, it wasn't until a little later that his tone and idea was reversed and only that was only after we banded together responding to it. I should think folks aware of the struggles at the regional level would understand our reaction and response. Then again, that's my opinion and I could be wrong.

On the other hand, ColganFO, apology appreciated and accepted. Not gonna hold it against you. Welcome to the board. Normally we're pretty friendly if you can believe it. :-)
 
I personally would expect my colleagues to congratulate me first, and if there is additional questions inqure in a polite manner. I must say pilots do themselves no favors when it comes to employee relations - at the regional level they appear to be somewhat dellusional like a college kid expecting that because they have a college degree they deserve a management position with a $70,000.
 
It's great to hear that someone is progressing. Congratulations are in order in almost every case. This is that exception because from practically the first post it was made clear that the interview and upgrade class assigned was jumping people with several months of seniority.

[SOAPBOX]The airlines are a business of sacred rites of passage and where order on the seniority list is god. The quickest way out of the cesspool that is regional airline flying is to build your PIC time as a captain. It is a huge offense to your fellow employees to jump ahead of your time because there is no merit-based system here. That is the only reason the inital posts generated the backlash that they did, they were seriously stepping on toes. You'd be hard pressed to find any congratulations for that. Well, unless you're in airline management I suppose... [/SOAPBOX]
 
Rocketman99 said:
It's great to hear that someone is progressing. Congratulations are in order in almost every case. This is that exception because from practically the first post it was made clear that the interview and upgrade class assigned was jumping people with several months of seniority.

[SOAPBOX]The airlines are a business of sacred rites of passage and where order on the seniority list is god. The quickest way out of the cesspool that is regional airline flying is to build your PIC time as a captain. It is a huge offense to your fellow employees to jump ahead of your time because there is no merit-based system here. That is the only reason the inital posts generated the backlash that they did, they were seriously stepping on toes. You'd be hard pressed to find any congratulations for that. Well, unless you're in airline management I suppose... [/SOAPBOX]
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Point well taken Rocketman99, I'd prefer not to discuss the details of my upgrade status at Colgan on Jet Careers. I agree with your earlier statement that the JetCareers community is positive forum to discuss the industry, and I whole-heartly look forward to being a positive contribution to this websites' needs.
I feel that it is in my best interests not to discuss my personal upgrade status at Colgan, conversations of that level are best kept between myself and my company.
That being said I thank you for accepting my apology, and I look forward to the growth spurt our company is on the verge of. I know how financially frustrating being an FO can be, but I know we will all reach our desired goals and dreams in this industry if we all keep the dedication in our hearts and minds. Best of Luck to Everyone at Colgan as well as all the pilots on this forum.
:)
 
I just find the whole seniority system antiquated, impractical and wrong! The system really screws you, yet you get so emotional over it - nothing is better for a employees than competition. The notion that you deserve certain promotions, pay increases, different equipment solely based date of hire is farcical - not sure where the motivation for excellence is.

Much like my ground breaking idea of everyone taking a month of if lay offs are needed - I think you guys should work to abolish this.
 
I know plenty of people who have worked at an airline put there time in after a few years, then the next minute the company goes down the tubes. It's not really fair to any of them too loose their seniority and start again from the bottom, but such is life.
I pride myself on having respect and dignity for my fellow pilot, and I think it's in all of our best interests to be as supportive to one another as much as possible.
 
Seniority or Merit - Lesser of two evils?

Seniority based progression IS a farcical and antiquated notion and I would potentially be happy to see it gone as well. In it's place you get the "merit system." In theory, it is by far the best way of doing business. In practice you end up with a bunch of politcal crap and kiss-ups who get to move ahead while those who are really deserving and don't brown-nose get left behind. I have yet to ever see a merit system that is 100% unbiased. Which system is better? I don't know. Maybe there is a different and better solution somewhere. Then you open a whole different can of works when the people who would lose out when the system changes fight tooth and nail not to let go, even if they don't deserve it. Human nature I guess, or is that just the value system of modern American society?

As to motivation, with a seniority based system there is no motivation except your own personal drive to be the best at what you do. For the average person I imagine it probably reverts to "...so my only real motivation is not getting yelled at."

You can only do so much to improve things at the regional level because folks are fine with the status quo as long as it's a short stepping stone to something bigger and better. There won't be any pressing urge to change things. Now that things have slowed down a bit the grumbles have been getting louder but IMO, short timer syndrome still reigns. I'm willing to bet a large amount of my sub-standard salary that if the majors were to start a massive hiring boom tomorrow no one would really care an iota about the QOL and business practices at the regional level.
 
ColganFO said:
I know plenty of people who have worked at an airline put there time in after a few years, then the next minute the company goes down the tubes. It's not really fair...
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FAIR? Ha ha ha, the word 'fair' in the context of aviation? Goond one!
 
Re: Seniority or Merit - Lesser of two evils?

Rocketman99 said:
Seniority based progression IS a farcical and antiquated notion and I would potentially be happy to see it gone as well. In it's place you get the "merit system." In theory, it is by far the best way of doing business. In practice you end up with a bunch of politcal crap and kiss-ups who get to move ahead while those who are really deserving and don't brown-nose get left behind. I have yet to ever see a merit system that is 100% unbiased. Which system is better? I don't know. Maybe there is a different and better solution somewhere. Then you open a whole different can of works when the people who would lose out when the system changes fight tooth and nail not to let go, even if they don't deserve it. Human nature I guess, or is that just the value system of modern American society?

As to motivation, with a seniority based system there is no motivation except your own personal drive to be the best at what you do. For the average person I imagine it probably reverts to "...so my only real motivation is not getting yelled at."

You can only do so much to improve things at the regional level because folks are fine with the status quo as long as it's a short stepping stone to something bigger and better. There won't be any pressing urge to change things. Now that things have slowed down a bit the grumbles have been getting louder but IMO, short timer syndrome still reigns. I'm willing to bet a large amount of my sub-standard salary that if the majors were to start a massive hiring boom tomorrow no one would really care an iota about the QOL and business practices at the regional level.
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Peter Gibbons is my HERO!
 
Rocketman99 said:
It's great to hear that someone is progressing. Congratulations are in order in almost every case. This is that exception because from practically the first post it was made clear that the interview and upgrade class assigned was jumping people with several months of seniority.

[SOAPBOX]The airlines are a business of sacred rites of passage and where order on the seniority list is god. The quickest way out of the cesspool that is regional airline flying is to build your PIC time as a captain. It is a huge offense to your fellow employees to jump ahead of your time because there is no merit-based system here. That is the only reason the inital posts generated the backlash that they did, they were seriously stepping on toes. You'd be hard pressed to find any congratulations for that. Well, unless you're in airline management I suppose... [/SOAPBOX]
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Honestly, do you guys have a say?

  • You knew going in about the pay
  • You know that upgrade times can change on a whim
  • Colgan doesn't have a union. I'm not sure, so I'm asking ya'll this, can management do what they want or do you have a contract?

I do wish every pilot the best of luck, but like other people have said, we are our own worst enemy.
 
I_Money said:
at the regional level they appear to be somewhat dellusional like a college kid expecting that because they have a college degree they deserve a management position with a $70,000.
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Disagree since by the time you hit a regional at least some people have been flying professionally for several years. That, and most entry-level management positions don't involve the safety of (at least) dozens of people each time they go to work.

As for the seniority system, it's not perfect (far from it), but it's better than anything I can think of. Every merit-based system I have observed has made mistakes in that the suck ups are mostly the ones who get promoted, not necessarily the most qualified.
 
stuckingfk said:
Honestly, do you guys have a say?

  • You knew going in about the pay
  • You know that upgrade times can change on a whim
  • Colgan doesn't have a union. I'm not sure, so I'm asking ya'll this, can management do what they want or do you have a contract?

I do wish every pilot the best of luck, but like other people have said, we are our own worst enemy.
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You're right, I did know about the pay going in. I've never made any mention of that aspect being a surprise. As a matter of fact, I knew all about the kind of job I was taking when I went to Colgan (which seems like something many other regional pilots don't bother to find out or care). But when you come out of sim in your interview and Chuck Colgan pulls you aside, offers you the job and tells you the upgrade time is about a year "but you'll upgrade sooner than with your prior military flying experience" I think that entitles me to do some bitching as I sit here on my 6th month of second year FO pay. (Let me clarify, that refers to the fact that Colgan typically upgrades guyss when they hit their hours "gates" and since I had a lot of total time already and almost all of ot multi turbine meant I would be there quick, and not that I'd be jumping ahead of qualified folks)

Best part about that is when I talked to T.B. one day about that he told me he asked Chuck and Cathy and they both flat out denied saying anything close to that, go figure. Am I really upset about that, no not really I'm a big boy. Water under the bridge. But you better believe I'm gonna be uber-pissed then if some numbnuts comes on a website bragging that he's skipping several months seniority costing the company money going TDY all the time cause he can't pick a base...

Yes, not having a union means management can technically do what they please but that doesn't force their hand. Many flying joints don't have unions and still treat their employees well. There's no guarantees whether you have a union or not. Just ask any TSA guys how that whole Go Jet deal came about...

Hmm...very negative sounding post...I think I need my morning coffee. Off to fly.
 
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