An Active USMC Officer to Airline Pilot Transition

jetpower

jetpower

Well-Known Member
I am currently an active duty Marine Corps Communications Officer, 25, and married with two kids. I was unable to join with an air contract due to my flight physical delay, however I will be putting in a package for lateral transfer (field accession board) next year to fly for the corps. The selection rate is about 10% and it is very competitive. Therefore, I am thinking about utilizing the GI Bill to get my ratings and working my way up to become an airline pilot once I am done serving in 2018. I understand that income/finance might be a major issue as a family man while trying to obtain my ratings/hours. Even if I do make it to the regional level, the starting salary is around 20k which is a major pay cut from my current pay. I did solo (around the traffic pattern) in a Cessna-172 back in 2006 when I was still in high school but that's the only experience I have.
Here is my ultimate question. Should I continue to pursue the aviation career (more like a dream) by utilizing the GI Bill after I'm done serving in the corps or should I utilize the GI Bill elsewhere such as my masters and fly recreationally? My major concern is my family. In addition, I am eligible for Hazelwood Act (educational benefit granted by the state of Texas) since I commissioned from Texas. I do have a BBA in international business management from UTSA and am fluent in Japanese. Any input/suggestion will be highly appreciated.
 
First and foremost, thank you for your service.

As far as the flying thing goes, you are ahead of the game in that you seem to understand that it is a long road to travel and not an easy one when it comes to family life. That being said, talk it over with your wife, decide what options you may have available outside of flying when you separate and if you would truly be happy pursuing those options. If so, using the GI Bill for a masters may be the smart move. Coupled with your prior service, it will put you in a great position to land a decent job in the civilian world. If you keep coming back to flying, and you have the support of your family, start taking lessons again. See if you still have that same passion for it and if you do, go with it. Most importantly, keep the lines of communication open with your SO and be honest.

I don't know the nitty gritty of what you do for the Corps, but your wife and kids probably will have already sacrificed quite a bit while you served, and those sacrifices will have to continue to support you while you fly. Perhaps not so much while you train but ESPECIALLY once you start at a regional airline. Keep in mind that even getting to a regional means a minimum of 1500 hours total time, among other requirements which would be a year or two of solid flying in one form or another to even get to that threshold. Once you start you'll be on reserve, gone most of the month unless you live in base and not bringing home much bacon. The upshot is that in theory it'll be the middle of the retirement/hiring wave that seems to be coming, so movement *should* be fairly steady and if you're lucky, quick.

Also, please continue to ask questions and talk to us on here, we're more than happy to help out and there are a number of intelligent types here so someone will either know the answer, or know how to find it for you. We have several in the military whom may be able to more closely relate to your situation as well. Good luck, I hope this rambling response is a little bit of a help.
 
Got a nice safety net till 2018.
Many bases have military flying clubs - reasonable rates.
Is it possible to work towards instructor? (Can't hurt the lateral package, either --- demonstrated interest.)
That way can see if still like it when it's actually work.

Marine Captain (with wife and kids) who taught me instruments in Okinawa was tracking this plan. Fine instructor, too.
Good Luck!
 
Thank you all for the response. I didn't know how friendly this forum was.

I will look for local flying clubs to see what options they offer. I would at least like to obtain my PPL so that I can include that in my package prior to the field accession board that convenes on next June. Whether or not I have the 7k to spend for PPL is questionable.
 
jetpower said:
Thank you all for the response. I didn't know how friendly this forum was.

I will look for local flying clubs to see what options they offer. I would at least like to obtain my PPL so that I can include that in my package prior to the field accession board that convenes on next June. Whether or not I have the 7k to spend for PPL is questionable.
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As long as a CFI signed off your logbook for the solo you had, those hours don't expire. You're already on your way!

Good luck!
 
I'm in a roughly similiar situation to you--my contract ends in 2018. Until then, I'm maximizing my time by flying privately at the FBO to build as much time as I can, I'm also looking at buying a plane to offset rental costs. You should leverage having a full time job while you can to avoid the crappy entry-level paid pilot lifestyle if you can swing it.
 
I was kind of in a similar situation as you, the major differences being I was a non-pilot Navy officer, had a spouse but no kids. I had been flying recreationally on my own the whole time while I was in the Navy so I already had a private certificate and an instrument rating.

If the lateral transfer board doesn't work out, I would recommend trying to get your ratings done prior to separation, as someone pointed out, having a full time job makes it somewhat easier to fly privately.

The thought of ever being a commercial pilot never crossed my mind until about 18 months prior to separation (a civilian jammer pod Learjet buzzed my ship after I approved his request for a flyby after an exercise. I had to look down to see him fly past under the bridge wing level at < 50ft altitude - at that point I thought he had a cool job and I thought I'd like to do his job). I didn't make up my mind to actually do it until a year prior to separation when I submitted my resignation letter.

After I submitted my resignation letter my mindset was to finish as many certificates as I could prior to separating. Ironically I used my retention bonuses (everyone in the navy gets retention bonuses to stay in) to fund my flight training and to start saving for the lean low paying years. I was lucky that timing worked out in between deployment workups and got all of the required certificates except for the cfi's done prior to separating. I had about 6 months of unemployment / more flight training before I got hired at my first regional airline.

We were only able to make an airline career work because we had no debt other than a mortgage and because we saved like crazy in our last 12 months in the Navy while I still had a paycheck.

Until recently my wife complained about me being gone more as an airline pilot than when I was in the Navy (working at a regional airline.) now my wife complains that I need to go pick up a trip so that I'm not home all the time (after regional airline - on reserve in base haven't seen an airplane or been to an airport in over 6 weeks)

I'd try to save the GI Bill for something other than flight training. The 9/11 GI Bill didn't exist when I resigned, so I didn't have any GI Bill benefits until after they passed it into law. So now I'm pondering what to use the GI Bill for - either to go back to school (to get a back up career) or get a 737 type rating (maybe)
 
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Thanks again for the response everyone.

I contacted the local flying club at March AFB today and they offer flight training. Most of the instructors there are former military pilots which can be beneficial in my situation if he/she could write me a letter of recommendation upon successful completion of their training. Unfortunately, I will be busy with school for the next six months so I probably won't have enough time to devote into flight training.

Quick question. As mentioned previously, my contract with the Corps ends on April, 2018. By then, I will be 29 years old. Assuming that I've already obtained my PPL, will that be too old of an age to begin an airline career? Should I have my commercial by then? What kind of career progression should I expect?

I believe that the best I can prepare myself for the field accession board and airline career is to obtain my ratings and gain experience. For now, I just need to be the best Marine I can be and save in order to obtain those ratings. Do you all agree?
 
You can't pay for your private with the GI bill (or atleast could not when I was a CFI), so that considerable expense would be out of your own pocket. I have no idea if having prior flight experience would be an item the board would look favorably on for a lateral transfer or not. I suspect that there are both plusses and minuses, in that I think a little experience and maybe a PPL would be valued but a lot of civilian experience might be seen as a negative due to the law of primacy.
 
I would definitely try for the transition in the Corps as soon as you can. Sounds like you're young enough to get more than one look, if you need it. I was a Navy NFO, so I had to go the long route through aviation too. I got out at 32 with a Commercial Multi, but still had to get the CFI certs. GI Bill is a great deal if you need it. MWR Flying clubs can be cheap, but remember, they have to be 141 in order for you to use the GI Bill. I used mine for a Master's and flight training through a FBO in Memphis, and I still have 9 months left, so I wouldn't worry too much about saving it unless you want to pass it on to kids.

Getting a Private Pilot cert couldn't hurt when it comes to the board. If nothing else, it will give you a better idea of whether you'll love aviation or not. Then if you don't get picked up, finish everything up and start instructing.
 
jetpower said:
Thanks again for the response everyone.

I contacted the local flying club at March AFB today and they offer flight training. Most of the instructors there are former military pilots which can be beneficial in my situation if he/she could write me a letter of recommendation upon successful completion of their training. Unfortunately, I will be busy with school for the next six months so I probably won't have enough time to devote into flight training.

Quick question. As mentioned previously, my contract with the Corps ends on April, 2018. By then, I will be 29 years old. Assuming that I've already obtained my PPL, will that be too old of an age to begin an airline career? Should I have my commercial by then? What kind of career progression should I expect?

I believe that the best I can prepare myself for the field accession board and airline career is to obtain my ratings and gain experience. For now, I just need to be the best Marine I can be and save in order to obtain those ratings. Do you all agree?
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I knew a guy who got a job at 53. It was a Commuter job, but their rationale for hiring him was that by retirement (age 60 back then), he would have spent much more time there than the average hire.

You could plan on putting 20 years into a company, so if you thought you could stomach 45-65, you could definitely use that as an "at the latest" bench mark. So, at 29 years old, that would give you over 15 years to get hired at a major, if you chose that route. Even by this last recession's standards, that's a really long time. Would it work for you and your family? Depends on your situation.

Come up with a basic career plan. And by basic, I mean to not think CFI-REGIONAL-MAJOR in 5 years is concrete. Go wherever your family will survive with you while you get the experience you need and don't let yourself sit idle long, like I did. Consistently try to better yourself. And try to enjoy the ride, too. That's important!
 
Another consideration with the military route is to look at an interservice transfer to the Air Force or Army with a guaranteed flight slot. Look at active and reserve/guard. While it is not common in the Navy and almost unheard of in the Marines the Air Force and Army are full of pilots who started their military careers in other services. I know one former Navy PO (Navy has so many freakin' abbreviations I'm not sure what his was), in his early 30's who just started WOCS (warrant officer candidate school) for the Army, then going to flight school. He had a choice between commissioned flight slot in the reserves or WO flight slot active duty and chose the latter.

Also unlike the Navy/Marines the Air Force/Army Reserve/Guard will accept non-rated applicants for flight slots. Most of the slots are M-Day (part time), but with many of those you can make descent money. Well, you could. Not sure what will be happening with budget cuts.

Use the shot gun. One of the pellets might find its mark.
 
Blackhawk said:
Another consideration with the military route is to look at an interservice transfer to the Air Force or Army with a guaranteed flight slot. Look at active and reserve/guard. While it is not common in the Navy and almost unheard of in the Marines the Air Force and Army are full of pilots who started their military careers in other services. I know one former Navy PO (Navy has so many freakin' abbreviations I'm not sure what his was), in his early 30's who just started WOCS (warrant officer candidate school) for the Army, then going to flight school. He had a choice between commissioned flight slot in the reserves or WO flight slot active duty and chose the latter.

Also unlike the Navy/Marines the Air Force/Army Reserve/Guard will accept non-rated applicants for flight slots. Most of the slots are M-Day (part time), but with many of those you can make descent money. Well, you could. Not sure what will be happening with budget cuts.

Use the shot gun. One of the pellets might find its mark.
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+1 I would put packages together for for the Air Force Reserve and Guard as well, a lot of units take prior service non flyers, and since you're already commissioned it would make it that much easier and save them from having to get and pay for OTS/AMS school dates. Even if you don't make a ton of money after training (as a strictly traditional C-130 0-2 type I sure don't) when all is said and done you will still have a leg up on those that went into debt to get their ratings. You'll also have ~ 3 years of full time active duty pay during training. It's definitely something to think about.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. Most Air National Guard units take college GPA into consideration which will haunt me for the rest of my life. In addition, I'll have to take AFOQT and TBAS, which I need to study for. However, that is indeed an option.

I was strongly hoping for lateral transfer within the Corps or in the Navy due to they fact that I already passed their flight aptitude test (ASTB) and flight physical. Currently, I am saving for private pilot license and training myself mentally and physically on daily basis in order to be competitive for the field accession board.

Fortunately, a USMC Capt, who got accepted for 2009 field accession board, has given me an insight on what he did in order to get selected by the board. He preached me that fitness reports weighs heavily for selection. Therefore, I'll have to do the best I can as a Com officer and gain some flight experience as well as a few deployments under my belt.
 
jetpower said:
Thanks for the suggestions. Most Air National Guard units take college GPA into consideration which will haunt me for the rest of my life. In addition, I'll have to take AFOQT and TBAS, which I need to study for. However, that is indeed an option.

I was strongly hoping for lateral transfer within the Corps or in the Navy due to they fact that I already passed their flight aptitude test (ASTB) and flight physical. Currently, I am saving for private pilot license and training myself mentally and physically on daily basis in order to be competitive for the field accession board.

Fortunately, a USMC Capt, who got accepted for 2009 field accession board, has given me an insight on what he did in order to get selected by the board. He preached me that fitness reports weighs heavily for selection. Therefore, I'll have to do the best I can as a Com officer and gain some flight experience as well as a few deployments under my belt.
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I think you misunderstand. We were not saying that you should give up on the Marine route. We were recommending that you widen your shot group and see which one pans out. I have seen too many JO's and enlisted get strung along and screwed. You are being honorable and serving in the Marines. You owe them no more, no less.

You will find that the farther you get from college the less important your GPA becomes. I can't remember the last time someone asked me for my GPA... which is a good thing since I majored in the 3 "Bs". Beer, babes and ball. Of course I am a product of the Reagan build up when you needed a pulse to get into flight school (there were over 60 in my class).
Most Guard/Reserve units will be more concerned with your performance as a Marine officer and who you are. Deployments are stressful enough in the Guard/Reserves. The last thing you need is some douchebag making things worse.
 
Here are a couple thoughts.......

1. What is your current rank? That could have a lot to do with the feasibility of an inter service or even lateral transfer to aviation. If you are much more than a very junior O-2, it would be a non starter. The aviation pipeline, particularly for the USN/USMC (we take longer to get through flight school than USAF or USA), is a very long one. I was a couple months shy of being an O-3 by the time I showed up to my first operational command (post flight school and FRS) as a guy who showed up to flight school as a brand new ENS. I know a couple guys who came from diverse backgrounds, or at least had weird career timelines. One of them, my roomatte on cruise, was a nuke instructor for a couple years before picking up a lateral transfer to aviation. He is in a tough spot right now, less than a year out from his first look at O-4, not being senior enough in the squadron to warrant a #1 EP by seniority (that's a whole other conversation), and will not have the chance to have a competitive FITREP in his shore tour prior to the O-4 board. I think it will work out for him due to his performance, but he did a lat xfer as a very junior O-2 and is at this point, about as senior as he possibly could be without basically having no chance for promotion or any future in terms of his military career. I'm surprised that BUPERS actually let this happen (and he wasn't the only one from that program), but it is at least a telling example. He would probably have been in better shape had he flown something else other than Hornets, since just about every other platform gets to the fleet about a year earlier and thus has more time to break out in a FITREP. But whatever.....hopefully that makes sense. Add in some extra time for an interservice if that is your intent, as the gaining and losing service will take time to reach an administrative "agreement" in most cases. I don't think this is your intent though, based on your original post.....just responding realistically to what others have said. USAF and Army may have different realities, which I can't speak to. I do think that if a lat transfer is your cup of tea, then doing it in house in the Corps would likely be the best idea. You are done with TBS, you are already a Marine, and you probably know people who can vouch for you as well. You wouldn't have to worry about getting released from your service, and it wouldn't be moving to an unknown......there are a lot of constants between the various Marine communities (at least from the perspective of a Navy dude who spent a couple years going through the Marine FRS).

2. Go on airwarriors.com. There are a bunch of dudes over there who are FO's and CA's for the majors now who made it work being non-pilot officers or NFO's in a past life. They would have the no kidding gouge on how to make it happen, logistically and financially speaking. There are also a bunch of lat xfer dudes there as well.

Just some thoughts. Hope it works for you. If you have any questions about Naval Aviation, I am happy to answer them......I'm a Navy Hornet guy, but I have friends in all different platforms and many in the USMC as well.
 
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///AMG said:
Here are a couple thoughts.......

1. What is your current rank? That could have a lot to do with the feasibility of an inter service or even lateral transfer to aviation. If you are much more than a very junior O-2, it would be a non starter. The aviation pipeline, particularly for the USN/USMC (we take longer to get through flight school than USAF or USA), is a very long one. I was a couple months shy of being an O-3 by the time I showed up to my first operational command (post flight school and FRS) as a guy who showed up to flight school as a brand new ENS. I know a couple guys who came from diverse backgrounds, or at least had weird career timelines. One of them, my roomatte on cruise, was a nuke instructor for a couple years before picking up a lateral transfer to aviation. He is in a tough spot right now, less than a year out from his first look at O-4, not being senior enough in the squadron to warrant a #1 EP by seniority (that's a whole other conversation), and will not have the chance to have a competitive FITREP in his shore tour prior to the O-4 board. I think it will work out for him due to his performance, but he did a lat xfer as a very junior O-2 and is at this point, about as senior as he possibly could be without basically having no chance for promotion or any future in terms of his military career. I'm surprised that BUPERS actually let this happen (and he wasn't the only one from that program), but it is at least a telling example. He would probably have been in better shape had he flown something else other than Hornets, since just about every other platform gets to the fleet about a year earlier and thus has more time to break out in a FITREP. But whatever.....hopefully that makes sense. Add in some extra time for an interservice if that is your intent, as the gaining and losing service will take time to reach an administrative "agreement" in most cases. I don't think this is your intent though, based on your original post.....just responding realistically to what others have said. USAF and Army may have different realities, which I can't speak to.

2. Go on airwarriors.com. There are a bunch of dudes over there who are FO's and CA's for the majors now who made it work being non-pilot officers or NFO's in a past life. They would have the no kidding gouge on how to make it happen, logistically and financially speaking. There are also a bunch of lat xfer dudes there as well.

Just some thoughts. Hope it works for you
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I can't speak from the Air Force side.

From the Army side... I'm not sure what they would do with you on the commissioned side coming from the Marines. I know the same problems exist for branch transfers within the Army on the commissioned side. You are behind the power curve trying to check the required boxes in time for your first O-4 look. My wife did it as a mid grade O-2 and was able to make it work, easily made O-4 and was on the fast track for squadron command, but then decided to go to medical school. We aren't really sure what she will do when she grows up.
Warrant officer side is different. It is not unusual for commissioned officers to revert to warrant officer and this is what I did when I went from active duty to the Guard. I went from O-4 to CW2. It is pretty easy in the Guard to camp out for years as a CW3/4.

Like I wrote earlier, explore all of your options.
 
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