AMR to Divest American Eagle

kellwolf said:
Tell that to the stack of guys that I've flown with in MEM that can't afford the cut. How about CAL? I'm a little shaky of being without health insurance with a 3-4 year old for that long. My personal plan is to sock enough away that I can afford to make the jump later on from regional CA to major FO, but there are a lot of guys that can't take the pay cut. So they're trapped.
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Ok, you're right....poor life planning doesn't really count. It's truly unfortunate that some get in trouble buying things in excess of what they can afford. Or, of course, the unforeseen divorce. But, for those of us who try to plan ahead for 'lean' times when (if we get lucky) we make the move, it's just not as hard since it won't be a huge cut....unlike some of the better paying regionals.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I'd actually believe that. But the question would not be if it's true, but when will they be on property.

Skywest, Comair, PNCL, Mesa, Shuttle America, all have 76 seat jets, ASA is the only one, besides XJT that doesn't.

So, it does make sense that now that the TA has been ratified that the 900's would be coming. Your company would already have 900's, but they were transferred to another company!

So, I'd believe that rumot!
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kellwolf said:
I'm actually HOPING that happens. Maybe then management will realize if they want to see real growth here, they're gonna have to settle the contract. They've already said that 16 -900s isn't gonna pay the bills for the program. We should know the results of the strike vote within the next day or two, and if it's what I'm hoping it'll be, I doubt Delta is gonna want to go through another ASA-like service interruption with Pinnacle.
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I absolutely believe it too, the question is how though. Delta won't be putting out any RFPs for a while so it looks like there's gunna be some sort of swapping going on. Apparently Skywest doesn't want a base in ATL, Mesa can't staff their 900 planes, and neither can Pinnacle (So i've heard, Steve you can confirm this better). So it seems like Delta will swap around the flying next year. My guess is we will be taking 900 flying from Comair, Skywest and Mesa sometime next year. The ATR goes bye bye officially next December so I'll be back in training. Delta is deciding whether to go to an all jet fleet or order Q400s or the ATR72-600. Gas prices will be the deciding factor IMO.
 
Oh, the -900s are staffed just fine. They're planning on staffing them 5 crews for each plane. So far, there haven't been any vacancies not filled. HOWEVER, I can't say that about DTW and MSP. They're more or less robbing crews from NWA hubs to staff the Delta flying.
 
777forever said:
I absolutely believe it too, the question is how though. Delta won't be putting out any RFPs for a while so it looks like there's gunna be some sort of swapping going on. Apparently Skywest doesn't want a base in ATL, Mesa can't staff their 900 planes, and neither can Pinnacle (So i've heard, Steve you can confirm this better). So it seems like Delta will swap around the flying next year. My guess is we will be taking 900 flying from Comair, Skywest and Mesa sometime next year. The ATR goes bye bye officially next December so I'll be back in training. Delta is deciding whether to go to an all jet fleet or order Q400s or the ATR72-600. Gas prices will be the deciding factor IMO.
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Delta's been pondering the Q400's for quite some time. Delta was in discussions with Mesa about buying some Q400's for Freedom to operate out of JFK, but decided on the 900's instead.
 
Cruise said:
But, for those of us who try to plan ahead for 'lean' times when (if we get lucky) we make the move, it's just not as hard since it won't be a huge cut....unlike some of the better paying regionals.
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You're nuts dude! When I was barely hanging on as a CFI my expenses were actually higher than now. This is because I had more car insurance, lower deductibles, less preventive mx on the car, couldn't afford to buy things in bulk or while they were on sale, more student loans, etc. etc. With more money you can better set yourself up financially when you do take that large pay cut.

That's one common thread I've read about for career changers - use your current salary to pay off things like cars, mortgages, etc. and save up to supplement (if you need to).
 
wheelsup said:
You're nuts dude! When I was barely hanging on as a CFI my expenses were actually higher than now. This is because I had more car insurance, lower deductibles, less preventive mx on the car, couldn't afford to buy things in bulk or while they were on sale, more student loans, etc. etc. With more money you can better set yourself up financially when you do take that large pay cut.

That's one common thread I've read about for career changers - use your current salary to pay off things like cars, mortgages, etc. and save up to supplement (if you need to).
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Um, Ok...if you think so. But I'm not NUTS......provided you live w/in your means, it's not as much of a culture shock when you make the move. Fine, if it's easier to make a move to legacy FO from good-regional CA.....why are most senior CA's not making the move to more money down the road? Oh, don't worry, I don't need your answer.......it's because they've set themselves up so tight at 70-80K per year, they can't make the move to the bottom of the pay barrel again.

So, guess being nuts is a perspective :rolleyes:.......'cause from where I'm sitting, it's alot easier to absorb a 10-15K hit for a year than it would be a 30-50K. To each, his own.....PLAN ACCORDINGLY.
 
ready2fly said:
We were fortunate. We bought our house here in Texas last year for $89.5K.

Put it on the market in September and closed in early November - just over 2 1/2 months - sold for our asking price of $96.5K.
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What area did you buy in? I'm house hunting.. looking for a place in the next six months or so...
 
Firebird2XC said:
What area did you buy in? I'm house hunting.. looking for a place in the next six months or so...
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Saginaw (= North Ft. Worth). Nice area. Very affordable!!

Oh, and check with Billy. He has a house for sale ;)

(see there, Billy? Lookin' out for ya, bro! :D )
 
Firebird2XC said:
Seems there's a whole lot more in the works at AMR than just liquidating their interests in Eagle for a cheaper way.
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You can count on it.
This post, from another board, by a long time Beagle pilot brings up some interesting ideas. I think the future may be brighter than a lot of people think. The "sale" could very well be a divestment (read shell game) by AMR:

"Not long after the AA Flight Attendant Strike in November of 1993 then AMR CEO Bob Crandall made an informational presentation to investment bankers in New York updating them on where AMR was and where it was going. During that briefing he foresaw into the future, more then 10 years out, American Airlines being out of the domestic flying business with the exception of long haul transcons and inter-hub flying. He knew that since the MD-80 fleet was aquired over a relatively short period of time it would be retired over an equally short period of time . And when that time came he felt that would be the perfect time to build Eagle into AMR's domestic airline.

In 1994 during the Q&A of a speech given by Bob Crandall at the Wings Club in New York City he was asked about selling American Eagle. Crandall replied that anything and everything that AMR had was always for sale for the right price. At the end of the speech then United Airlines CEO Stephen Wolf went up to Crandall and said "How much for Eagle?" Crandall laughed and said "You can't afford it, Stephen!" thus indicating the value the AMR placed on American Eagle.

Fast forward to 2003... Peter B0wler was quoted in the Dallas Morning News as saying "I think our value is not fully recognized. We've been intentionally low key the last several years, but now we've got the foundation in place to be the kind of carrier we want to be."

Is that carrier one that has always been intended to be spun off?

Warning: This is where my 2-cent speculation starts... There is no question that the divide between AMR and APA makes the Grand Canyon look like a crack in the sidewalk. And I think AMR realizes that as noble as it was to stay out of bankruptcy post 9/11 it was a competitive mistake. I can see AMR spinning off Eagle in 2008 so as to have it out from a potential bankruptcy in the event that APA pilot negotiations turn sour in early 2009. I believe AMR will either force APA into further concessions or it will drive them to a strike.

An APA strike will give AMR the opportunity to, for all intents and purposes through bankruptcy, walk away from domestic flying and it's scope restrictions. AMR will then be able to bring American Airlines out of bankruptcy as what Robert Crandall envisioned in the early 1990's, a profitable Long Haul Transcon and International Airline. At the same time Eagle will be in need of replacing it's 50 seat and below aircraft. It's highly unlikely that Eagle will be replacing those aircraft with more 50 seat regional jets. Expect to see Eagle replace the the 50 seat RJs with 90-130 seat replacement aircraft and picking up the domestic flying that AA walked away from."
 
Well said- who the hell knows what's next?


Maybe this was why there was so much emphasis in the CRJ-700.. that was step one.

Veeeeery interesting.
 
Wouldn't you eagle guys rather be at AA instead of Eagle? 80-130 seat aircraft will pretty much guarantee a career at RFP-central. Not what I had in mind when I signed up for this gig.
 
wheelsup said:
Wouldn't you eagle guys rather be at AA instead of Eagle? 80-130 seat aircraft will pretty much guarantee a career at RFP-central. Not what I had in mind when I signed up for this gig.
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Well, what did you have in mind when you signed up for this gig?;) The writing's been on the wall for a while...and I think I've said this exact same thing on here for a few years (about domestic being farmed out more and more, eventually being all "regional" flying, i.e., the "C" scale I think is where we're at), and the majors being only international.

I agree with you, though...why would a regional pilot be happy with this?:banghead::panic::banghead:
 
ready2fly said:
Well said Av8trxx!

Hope you're right.
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I hope things come out okay buuuuttt.....

Eagle as the domestic arm of AA? I hope a new contract with higher pay rates comes with that, or we're all pretty much screwed. Eagle's got good pay rates, but they don't have domestic 737 type pay rates. If regionals start doing domestic flying rather than mainline, I think I might have to sit down, have a good cry and re-evaluate my career goals. 'Cause I didn't get into this thing to fly a 737 or a 757 transcon for regional rates.
 
Clarification:

When I said I hoped Av8trxx was right, I meant that in the sense that Eagle will grow from the divestiture - not be chopped up.

Who said anything about being happy with it? I certainly didn't. If a better contract doesn't come out of it - I'll either join in the strike if their is one - or I'll leave.

As for Kellwolf's concern about the regionals flying 737 routes.......brother - we already do that. You know that. Yet, here we are, making regional rates.

Sadly, we here at Eagle are stuck with several years left of a 16 year contract that only allows us, basically, cost of living raises.

When I "signed up for this gig" at Eagle, I did so with the intent on gaining valuable Part 121 experience and then hopefully one day moving on to a legacy carrier.

If this divestiture gives us more oportunities to upgrade, fly newer equipment, and then move on - then great.

If it stagnates our growth potential, then I'm gone.

/rant.

R2F
 
av8trxx said:
Expect to see Eagle replace the the 50 seat RJs with 90-130 seat replacement aircraft and picking up the domestic flying that AA walked away from."
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Hang on, I need to pick myself up off the floor and wipe up the coke I spewed out my nose while laughing.

Dont count on it. With the E-Jet operations like Republic, you can count on American pitting Eagle against lower fees. It'll be up to the pilots of American to ensure the 50 seat clause stays. It'd be a sad day to see a "regional" flying 90-130 jets, especially since American's fleet consists of 325 MD-80's.

Dont count on it. ;)
 
meritflyer said:
American does have a 50 seat clause that only allows a certain amount of jets with more than 50 seats, correct?
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As far as I know, that's correct. APA has a strict scope clause. If there's somebody flying jets with more than 50 seats and they're involved with AMR, AMR pays the APA big bucks.

Beyond that, AMR has gotten APA to give waivers to a small number of 50+ seat operations, ie the ATR fleet and a limited number of CRJ-700s. As I have heard it, the initial 25 CRJs on hand as well as options for 25 more were waivered.

It's believed that the Letter 3 agreement talks fell through when the Eagle president tried to get language in writing says that Eagle was authorized to procure CRJs- but the language had no mention of specific numbers. Eagle management claimed it was a 'reiteration' but APA cried foul saying it was a scope-buster.

My point was, is maybe that's what Eagle management was trying to do- foster that development toward more domestic flying here.

Personally I don't care who flies what, so long as the pay rates reflect the kind of flying done. If American goes all long haul domestic and international only, that's fine with me- so long as pay reflects that. If Eagle grows to fill the void and becomes the new domestic mainline carrier, that's okay with me too- so long as pay reflects that.

The problem I have is if American pilots were losing flying (or worse yet) jobs to Eagle pilots. That's not acceptable. However, given American's looming mass retirement of both senior pilots and old MD-80s, it's possible the plan is just a step down in flying via attrition.

I think AMR's grand plan includes slipping in smaller jets to drive down wages. I don't really think they understand just how pissed so many of us will be if things don't reflect that kind of change.

This is why I think it's so important to get junior pilots in the regional ranks involved in union efforts. It's where the next big battles of the coming decade will happen.
 
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