American Flyers KMMU

jspeed87

jspeed87

Well-Known Member
For a CFI initial part 61, dose anyone have any experience with American Flyers? I have mixed reviews from good, to not so good, to stay away. I have both written exams out of the way and I am looking for an experienced CFI (who has the patience) to mold me in my communication and instructing skills. I am interested in self-pace only not CFI Academy. This for MMU in New Jersey.
 
jspeed87 said:
For a CFI initial part 61, dose anyone have any experience with American Flyers? I have mixed reviews from good, to not so good, to stay away. I have both written exams out of the way and I am looking for an experienced CFI (who has the patience) to mold me in my communication and instructing skills. I am interested in self-pace only not CFI Academy. This for MMU in New Jersey.
Click to expand...
What negative things have you heard about AF? I've heard lots of great things. I'm going to Addison Academy august 13th for CFI/CFII. Their study book and online prep has been an awesome resource and they've been great at accommodating me so far. A lot more pleased then a ATP Academy. Free Sim time and group instructing in a classroom was an upper edge than a lot of other programs I've heard back from.

I can let you know in a couple weeks how my first few days go. Their 30 day program seems nice. Also you should need 3 writtens....unless you're just doing the 14 say CFI course?
 
AF CFI Academy is very good, usually PMP and Texas work quicker but I haven't heard anything negative about MMU.

You will get an experienced CFI for the initial, but be prepared to work on your instruction and communications skills yourself also.

Out of 300 hours of effort, 270 were on the ground for the 3 ratings. It's all about how much you put in. The good thing with the academy is you teach your classmates and get critiques therein.
 
I have heard from people who went there that it usually cost way more then what the $3k that they say. I am actually interested in a non accelerated program as I wanted to just get my CFI Airplane initially at least this year. I'm probably better off finding a local CFI who can train me, but wanted to see how AF is for one-one training?
 
jspeed87 said:
I have heard from people who went there that it usually cost way more then what the $3k that they say. I am actually interested in a non accelerated program as I wanted to just get my CFI Airplane initially at least this year. I'm probably better off finding a local CFI who can train me, but wanted to see how AF is for one-one training?
Click to expand...
I know they advertise the $3500 fee but from the first day I called Mike Simmons was straight up honest and told me it'd cost average of $6000 after your examiner fees, writtens, and the average applicant went over the flying by 5 hours. I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying they aren't honest because he told me the first 10 minutes I ever called American Flyers. It was actually listed in their first email they send you as well, an automated message with all the info about cost and the program.

Also, as far as I've been told, it's all a group effort in class. You make lesson plans and teach the class and learn as a class. Not really one on one training. You may save money at your local FBO but downside is your training on your own, by yourself unless you have a buddy. That's why I didn't do CFI training at my college. Plus a CFI cert. at my college is $6000. For a CFI/CFII training and a 30 day class with people to study with for around $6000...I'll take it. Better than the $12000 ATP wants for CFI/CFII/MEI and some slideshows in 21 days.

Take it for what it's worth. Seems like too many people online are so nit picky. If it's not for you, then it's not for you. Only you can answer that...

But good luck buddy.

I'll let you know how class is. I start August 13th.
 
I did it 121, and they are very good, but as before the emphasis is on you to study and be prepared. If you can fly instrument and commercial procedures, all the flying has to do is transition you to the right seat, if you're rusty, it'll,take a bit to get that off. I leapfrogged a few academy guys while I was training and I didn't go for that as it was 30 days ground school, then checkrides would be scheduled.

Take a look at double eagle Tucson and San Diego schools for accelerated CFI for comparison.
 
The OP said he is NOT interested in the academy...

I did the CFI initial one on one with them. I had my writtens done and was pretty fresh with the maneuvers. It still cost me $7000. They charge about $95/hr ground, and $230ish/hr dual in the 172RG, which they cannot let you check out solo to get some practice. It's also $75/hr to play Microsoft Flight Simulator in their "sim."

The instructors were good, but the cost was exorbitant. The CFI should be one of the least expensive certs...
 
aviatorx43 said:
The OP said he is NOT interested in the academy...

I did the CFI initial one on one with them. I had my writtens done and was pretty fresh with the maneuvers. It still cost me $7000. They charge about $95/hr ground, and $230ish/hr dual in the 172RG, which they cannot let you check out solo to get some practice. It's also $75/hr to play Microsoft Flight Simulator in their "sim."

The instructors were good, but the cost was exorbitant. The CFI should be one of the least expensive certs...
Click to expand...

Wow, that seems a little off my budget planning. I was interested in them because they have a proven track record of training CFI candidates, but
that is outside my budget. I am better of finding a local CFI or FBO and doing it part 61 doing my own study and prep work. Thanks for the insight.
 
You can set up an appointment with them to discuss pricing before committing to anything, but I wouldn't expect anything too different from what I said above.
 
jspeed87 said:
For a CFI initial part 61, dose anyone have any experience with American Flyers? I have mixed reviews from good, to not so good, to stay away. I have both written exams out of the way and I am looking for an experienced CFI (who has the patience) to mold me in my communication and instructing skills. I am interested in self-pace only not CFI Academy. This for MMU in New Jersey.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if the Mad Irishman is still there (ask him about the time he engined out and decided to land at furthest suitable at DAB or when he got into a fist fight in the pattern at MMU), but that's the only thing I'd say to look out for. Other than that the MMU one was alright, and if Darren is still there give him a hug for me.
 
I highly recommend PMP AF location for the Academy. The key is the instructor and he has been teaching it for 17 years. I worked there for a year as an intern, did the academy, and worked there for 3 months as a CFI. That place is geared toward learning, teaching, and getting programs done.

The cost depends on how proficient you already are. If IFR is easy to you, then teaching it is all you have to focus on. In my 1.5 years there, all the people that went over budget couldn't even flying VOR nav.

I had the luxury of being familiar with the area, instructors, and being proficient. I finished all the training flights and the checkrides in 9.5 out of 10 hours included in the budget
 
I recently finished up my CFI training at AF MMU; therefore, the following review is based on what I experienced.

When I first started the director at the time promised he'd give me the instructor add on for CFI upon completion of the initial CFI-A (this did not happen)
The rate I was paying initially was $280/hour for the 172RG (with or without instructor) and $90 ground, after a couple months a new director came along and I was able to get that rate adjusted to $190/hour for the RG and $70/ hour ground... however once I passed my CFI ride they increased the rates again and that's when I decided to look elsewhere. Also the fact that the only two "senior" CFI's on site left, it was just a bunch of new instructors; therefore, I could not justify those rates and not only that but they pay their CFI's about $18/hour. I had the chance to fly with one of the new instructors and I felt like I was flushing my money down the drain, he barely instructed or spoke for that matter.

Last I checked, they did not have a director on site so if you have an issue you have to call the main office in Florida and they just blow you off easily over the phone, nothing like person to person interaction.

They only have 1 RG on site and it is pretty old, so if it goes down (which is what happened to me several times) then you are grounded and this is a pain in the neck, specially towards the end of your training. If I could do it all over again, I would very likely get it done at a smaller school in the area, I am sure you can find a better deal for your money.
 
aviatorx43 said:
The OP said he is NOT interested in the academy...

I did the CFI initial one on one with them. I had my writtens done and was pretty fresh with the maneuvers. It still cost me $7000. They charge about $95/hr ground, and $230ish/hr dual in the 172RG, which they cannot let you check out solo to get some practice. It's also $75/hr to play Microsoft Flight Simulator in their "sim."

The instructors were good, but the cost was exorbitant. The CFI should be one of the least expensive certs...
Click to expand...
AF? Cause their sim is 24/7 free to Academy students.

@nix_hex nothing against your review. Thanks for the info. Didn't realize rental rates were so high. Can you put any other input besides the pricing though? As far as CFI Academy headquarters went, Mike Simmons is the only person referenced to call for anything about the academy and he's in Dallas. He told me their headquarters were in Florida though but he was in charge of the planing and overview or whatever of the CFI Academy.

Straight up advertise it'll cost $6k estimate with the extra flight time average students use. Sure, a local airport is cheaper but I think you're missing the point of their Academy which is working with the students? Teaching and learning from eachother. Also, CFI/CFII for $6k is a pretty good deal, IMO. Rather do that then teach myself and not have any critique,I guess. It'll always be a personality thing though. Sorry you guys didn't enjoy your run at things. Hoping my class isn't bad...
 
Last edited:
tcco94 said:
AF? Cause their sim is 24/7 free to Academy students.

@nix_hex nothing against your review. Thanks for the info. Didn't realize rental rates were so high. Can you put any other input besides the pricing though? As far as CFI Academy headquarters went, Mike Simmons is the only person referenced to call for anything about the academy and he's in Dallas. He told me their headquarters were in Florida though but he was in charge of the planing and overview or whatever of the CFI Academy.

Straight up advertise it'll cost $6k estimate with the extra flight time average students use. Sure, a local airport is cheaper but I think you're missing the point of their Academy which is working with the students? Teaching and learning from eachother. Also, CFI/CFII for $6k is a pretty good deal, IMO. Rather do that then teach myself and not have any critique,I guess. It'll always be a personality thing though. Sorry you guys didn't enjoy your run at things. Hoping my class isn't bad...
Click to expand...

The rental rates are pretty high yes but as I mentioned on my last post I couldn't even justify these sky high rates because all of the instructors left at this location were folks right out of the academy with no instructing experience. I experinced this first had when I flew with one of them and the guy barely spoke the whole time we were in the airplane.

I guess it really depens on what actual instructor you get, but from what I saw there were no steady experienced instructors on site for them to justify the rates, the experienced guys would not last more than a couple of months. I brought this up to Andrew (director) down in Florida and he stated he was "confident on the quality of training they provide" in all the time I was at this school never once did he fly into Morristown to actually experience this first hand (as oposed to having an on site director) so how can you back up a product you haven't even inspected yourself?

I have nothing against the school, but I do speak my mind as I would like for other folks to think about these things before pouring their hard earned savings into a flight academy.

I also mentioned that they only have 1 Cessna 172-RG on site and when it goes down (which is often) you are grounded for a while.

My previous review was straight to the point regarding rates, CFI instruction and aircraft.
 
nix_hex said:
The rental rates are pretty high yes but as I mentioned on my last post I couldn't even justify these sky high rates because all of the instructors left at this location were folks right out of the academy with no instructing experience. I experinced this first had when I flew with one of them and the guy barely spoke the whole time we were in the airplane.

I guess it really depens on what actual instructor you get, but from what I saw there were no steady experienced instructors on site for them to justify the rates, the experienced guys would not last more than a couple of months. I brought this up to Andrew (director) down in Florida and he stated he was "confident on the quality of training they provide" in all the time I was at this school never once did he fly into Morristown to actually experience this first hand (as oposed to having an on site director) so how can you back up a product you haven't even inspected yourself?

I have nothing against the school, but I do speak my mind as I would like for other folks to think about these things before pouring their hard earned savings into a flight academy.

I also mentioned that they only have 1 Cessna 172-RG on site and when it goes down (which is often) you are grounded for a while.

My previous review was straight to the point regarding rates, CFI instruction and aircraft.
Click to expand...
I was never a can of going to that location in the first place so it's really good to know that. I never asked how many aircraft Addison has but I'll find out in a couple weeks. Bummer the experience was bad but glad to hear you got it done!

I'm too committed to turn away now lol so I don't have a choice to look elsewhere unfortunately.
 
The experience wasn't THAT bad because I was able to get a much lower rate (otherwise yes It would've have been a nightmare), unfortunately for whatever reason the Florida office said they would not honor that rate past the CFI and shut the door in my face that way. It was easy for them because they are 2000 miles away HA.

And I struggled towards the end because they could not get their stuff together in regards to the airplane. I had to wait 2 months to take my checkride because each time the plane would go down for maintanance -_-... the folks at the FAA were frustrated with them as well. When you wait that long for a checkride you need deeeeep pockets to stay current and not bust your ride because of lack of recent practice...AND.. all these extra expenses goes towards them.. see what I'm sayinnn
 
@nix_hex yeah I definitely see what you're saying. I assume that must be a newer location for them with only one airplane in their fleet? Still seems absurd regardless of if it's a new location or not. Wonder what their fleet size is compared to the other locations.
 
well this is for any commercial training and CFI... for Private they do have a few C172's.. no multi training on site tho, they have no multiengine planes.
 
nix_hex said:
well this is for any commercial training and CFI... for Private they do have a few C172's.. no multi training on site tho, they have no multiengine planes.
Click to expand...
Which is what I read online. For me I'm willing to work anywhere as a CFI initially because I don't wanna sit and wait through applications but I'd rather decide on one place rather than than move twice for a CFI job for only a year to build hours....

I have 12 hrs multi time ish from my multi add on but with my rATP I'll need 25 total. Their website advertises flying multi but wasn't sure which location because as far as I read, none of them have a multi. I'm contemplating just renting a multi for the few hours I'll need....
 
tcco94 said:
Which is what I read online. For me I'm willing to work anywhere as a CFI initially because I don't wanna sit and wait through applications but I'd rather decide on one place rather than than move twice for a CFI job for only a year to build hours....

I have 12 hrs multi time ish from my multi add on but with my rATP I'll need 25 total. Their website advertises flying multi but wasn't sure which location because as far as I read, none of them have a multi. I'm contemplating just renting a multi for the few hours I'll need....
Click to expand...

PMP is the spot for multi. C310
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top