Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
A brief op/ed piece I wrote for 'another' board. I thought the JC community might find it interesting. Enjoy. - Bird
American Eagle: A Career Airline
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
mxflyer
Well-Known Member
The "other" board is not the "better" board, right?
There are a lot of pilots at ASA with the same plans.
future pilot
Well-Known Member
Sorry if this sounds dumb. I'm not a pilot yet. But why would you want to retire at a regional? when in a few years all of the boomers will begin to retire and there will be open spots for regional pilots to fill at the majors. Then would you apply at the majors? Just curious.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Because alot of the Captains at Eagle are 18-20 year guys. They are senior enough to have plenty of time off and make 6 figures.
If they went up to the majors, they would most likely retire as junior FOs on some of the oldest equipment in the industry (MD80s). They would also take a hefty pay cut for the first few years as well. When you are that close to reitrement, why bother?
If they went up to the majors, they would most likely retire as junior FOs on some of the oldest equipment in the industry (MD80s). They would also take a hefty pay cut for the first few years as well. When you are that close to reitrement, why bother?
future pilot
Well-Known Member
That makes sense. Thanks!
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind the youngest CA at Eagle is 33. Most of the CA are in the 45-55 range.They would end up taking a big pay and QOL hit and maybe never make up either.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
I don't see it that way. I imagine you can have a pretty good life at Eagle, with respectable pay and QOL. In fact, if more people felt that regional airlines may be their career job, they could all work in narrowing the gap between them and the mainline carriers when it comes to the contract.
I am not saying I want the regionals to grow, I just want them to get better.
PGT
Well-Known Member
1. Regional airlines SHOULD NOT be a career job, the fact that people are considering this is 100% proof that they are too big. Unfortunately, regionals are here to stay (probably expand), it's a sad reality.
2. The only gap is that there will be more LCC, and less majors with good contracts.
EDIT: But what do I know? I'm just a college senior
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
I probably would have agreed with that in the past, but the fact that they are so big now changes that. They aren't going to shrink, so if it already takes up such a large percentage of the flying, it needs to be considered a career place now. If the contracts as a whole are improved, I think many would be satisfied with staying there for a significant amount of time.
EDIT: But what do I know? I'm just a college senior
You and me both. :beer:
Here's the problem though. Are regionals a "stepping stone" or not?
If they are, then the pay/QOL will remain low ala Mesa, etc, and many will remain as proverbial "bottom feeders" because there's no reason (in the eyes of management) to have good pay/QOL for what amounts to a form of "long-term temporary workers".
If they aren't a stepping stone, then they should be allowed to be a career job with the requisite pay/QOL and expansion capability.
It's seemingly been demonstrated that its difficult for many regionals to be both.
IMHO, that question needs to be answered first ala the definition of what/how a regional is viewed in this light.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I agree with the general premise. When I went to Comair several years ago I went with the following idea in mind: When the music stops you better be at a carrier where you could be happy retiring from. You could not get rich from the last Comair contract, but you could live a good middle class lifestyle. Even as a mid-seniority FO I learned to game the PBS and had a great schedule. Pay was reasonable and for senior Captains it was pretty darned good.
True at one time commuters were a stepping-stone. Today the regional airline exists in name only. It's a shell game played by airline management who have somehow managed to dupe a generation of airline pilots into believing that DC9, F28, Bac1-11 gauge aircraft are suddenly less desirable.
Sadly through ill considered loosening of scope clauses industry wide the airline pilot profession has voluntarily given away thousands upon thousands of what would have previously been good mainline jobs (with, I might add, even better pay and working conditions than what is found at the regionals).
Now, I don't know a darned thing about Eagle's contract. But if you can look at it and see how you will be able to raise your family, spend time at home, see the occasional little-league game... maybe even live in base... then why not consider it a career airline?
I've always appreciated the baseball analogy.
Every kid loves baseball. Some even play it in highschool or college. But only a select few of those kids ever has the opportunity to play for the minor leagues. Every single minor league ball player dreams of playing for the majors. But of those thousands of minor league baseball players around the country... only a handful will ever be selected to play for the majors.
The rest can make a pretty good living doing what they love in the minor leagues.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;o)
The CAVEAT to all of this is that at some point in your career you can't go back again. You can't keep starting over time and time again at lower and lower tier airlines. If folks want airlines such as Eagle and Comair to be career airlines then they need to expend some negotiating capital to improve the foundation -- the junior first officers. Higher entry requirements and significantly higher pay and better reserve work rules would go a long, long way to making the regionals desirable to high time, high experience aviators.
Just my thoughts from the peanut gallery.
True at one time commuters were a stepping-stone. Today the regional airline exists in name only. It's a shell game played by airline management who have somehow managed to dupe a generation of airline pilots into believing that DC9, F28, Bac1-11 gauge aircraft are suddenly less desirable.
Sadly through ill considered loosening of scope clauses industry wide the airline pilot profession has voluntarily given away thousands upon thousands of what would have previously been good mainline jobs (with, I might add, even better pay and working conditions than what is found at the regionals).
Now, I don't know a darned thing about Eagle's contract. But if you can look at it and see how you will be able to raise your family, spend time at home, see the occasional little-league game... maybe even live in base... then why not consider it a career airline?
I've always appreciated the baseball analogy.
Every kid loves baseball. Some even play it in highschool or college. But only a select few of those kids ever has the opportunity to play for the minor leagues. Every single minor league ball player dreams of playing for the majors. But of those thousands of minor league baseball players around the country... only a handful will ever be selected to play for the majors.
The rest can make a pretty good living doing what they love in the minor leagues.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;o)
The CAVEAT to all of this is that at some point in your career you can't go back again. You can't keep starting over time and time again at lower and lower tier airlines. If folks want airlines such as Eagle and Comair to be career airlines then they need to expend some negotiating capital to improve the foundation -- the junior first officers. Higher entry requirements and significantly higher pay and better reserve work rules would go a long, long way to making the regionals desirable to high time, high experience aviators.
Just my thoughts from the peanut gallery.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
I am 35. Yes I still have 30 feasible years left for an airline career, but I am a bit older then the average person getting their first airline gig. So for me, it may be more beneficial to stay at a regional for life. Who really knows. Maybe every pilot in the major cockpit these days really is a Vietnam Vet and will be retiring soon and we will all get to a major, only to get screwed by the next batch of flight instructors willing to do whatever they can to get an airline gig....And we will all complain about them as if we were never in their shoes!
I think what Firebirds is trying to say is that IF one were to consider staying at a regional for their whole career, Eagle may be one of the more stable.
I think what Firebirds is trying to say is that IF one were to consider staying at a regional for their whole career, Eagle may be one of the more stable.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
This part I do not agree with. Folks never... EVER... fall under the illusion that your airline (or any airline for that matter) is "stable".
The strongest of companies today may falter tomorrow. Consider pilots at Eastern, PanAm, Braniff, and TWA who felt secure in their positions and in the choice of carriers that they made. Those jobs were the most stable one might have imagined at the time. By their very nature as contract carriers regionals lack stability. Even wholly-owned carriers are subject to the whim of their parent company. Who might have guessed that little Chautauqua Airlines with 13 Jetstreams and a handful of Saab 340s (in 1996) would become the powerhouse Republic Airlines today? Who might have imagined that Atlantic Coast Airlines would have ceased to exist? Or that mighty Mesa Airlines (king of low costs) would be in bankruptcy.
Choose based on pay, quality of life, maybe even desirable domiciles. Never make choices based on perceived stability or forecast upgrade times... but that's another thread entirely.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Therein lies the rub. Some of them, once they had AA numbers, stopped trying to go anywhere else, for various reasons. They put all their eggs in the proverbial basket, and now they're stuck.
Point of irony: Some of the 'flowthrough' captains now facing actual possibility of flow are fighting mad about the concept- they're threatening litigation to STAY at Eagle. (It's not even know if they 'have' to go or not- and the arbitrator ruling on the pending grievance remedy has said he won't force anybody to go.)