American Airlines faces turbulent ride

Yes, it is quite a hard series of dots to connect.

Because in my America, contracts were expected to be fulfilled. In a better America, when you made a promise, you followed through with it.

.

Thats not just a management thing. Look at how many people took home loans and bailed on them outright, leaving the burden to the public. While some ran into legitimate hard times, many took out loans knowing full well the terms, knowing full well they couldn't pay it, and knowing full well they'd default.

We haven't had a two-way street in contract follow-through in a long time, from all sides of the spectrum. It indeed doesn't say alot for America.
 
I don't disagree UND hockey sucks, mostly because I can't stand hockey. Now, go Steelers (maybe not this year).


My point isnt to shift blame or even excuse actions but to talk about a side I think no one wants to talk about.

We keep coming back to this theory that if the company agreed to the terms they should pay. No one is willing to discuss where the money to pay for it will come from. Do current employees have to bankroll the retiree's? Or is the argument the money is/was there and it was outrightly stolen?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.008416,-92.396565
 
Or is the argument the money is/was there and it was outrightly stolen?

That's been the case in every pension disappearance I've ever studied. I can't speak to this particular case, but consider. It's not like CEOs were any dumber fifty years ago than they are now (the opposite, if anything). So does it pass the smell test to you that they just signed off on contracts that were untenable in the long term?
 
Seems like a fairly straight forward breach of contract to me.

I want X as a salary, you say you can't afford X right now but agree my work is worth that much so you offer (X-Y) + A(with A being paid at retirement after b years at company). I agree because I want the company to thrive.


Flash-forward b-5 years, all of the sudden you can't pay me A because you don't have enough money so you get to walk away from that obligation while randoms on message boards internet wide defend your ability to do this because "(I) can afford it because I made (X-Y) as a salary"?
 
I didn't change anything. I asked a question and was the presented with scenarios the only could be answered in a way that fit one sides view of the argument. I did answer the question as asked I simply provided a qualifier to the answer as well

If any changing is going on it is me being accused of making excuses or saying it is ok to steal pensions.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.008397,-92.396549
 
Fair question. That assumes one giant thing however. The CEO was concerned with the long term health if the company and wasn't simply "pumping and dumping" to cash in on golden parachute and stock options benefits.

Well, two things. 1) A company that enables a CEO to do that pretty much "has it coming" and 2) Compensation packages, and especially options/severance benefits were vastly more modest for CEOs at the time most of these contracts were penned. The short version (in my view, and obviously vastly simplified) is that, while the sorts of contracts signed in the glory days of American Business were impossible to keep up with in the later, less prosperous decades (and yes, it's certainly true that there was radically unsustainable growth in the 50s and 60s), it was emminently possible, even easy to meet the commitments entailed, otherwise they wouldn't have been made. What wound up happening, of course, is that 15 or 20 years later after the cupboard had been emptied be unscrupulous managers, the politicans they'd bought with the money they'd stolen were all too happy to accept the excuses that amounted to "Well, we had to steal, we were hungry!" from dudes "earning" (even then!) 3 or 4 hundred times the salaries of their menial workers.

The notion that pension funds are just bound to fail is a blatant, ludicrous, deliberate lie cooked up by the people who steal them. The really funny part is when, in 5 or 10 years, the boom/bust cycle switches gears and they start peddling the same promises everyone for Christ's sake ought to know by now they have no intention of keeping. And people buy it. Again. It's like Charlie Brown and the Football, and it is astonishing.
 
0908book-171829_copy1.jpg

If you have time, read this book!
 
It's one of my favorite words, and an absolute catch all!

I've always been partial to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legerdemain

but Estoppel is pretty awesome, too.

It makes me feel sort of dirty that it's French, but damn. You can't really hate on something so great, no matter who coined it.

PS. In the spirit of Full Disclosure, I should confess that I had to study and read stuff in French for school. It's not my fault, it was REQUIRED. I will further confess that


[h=3]François de La Rochefoucauld [/h]

Is one of my favorite quip-writers. Just born in the wrong place.

With that said: FREEDOM FRIES.
 
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