Alternates

Hondo Calrissian

I love chicken wings and beer....
Hello everyone from Hot Vegas!

A friend of mine posed a question to me today and I wanted to get some input from everyone else regarding alternates. I asked several people this question, including one check airmen and we all agreed to the same answer.

1) Can you legally amend a release to remove an alternate once air born if the new forecast no longer calls for an alternate?

and

2) Can you legally amend a release to remove an alternate prior to departure if the new forecast it no longer calls for the alternate?
 
1. Absolutely
2. Absolutely

You can amend to remove alternate at any time it is no longer required. The choice is up to you and the PIC if it is no longer prudent to safety of flight to have the alternate.
 
Yes and Yes but not necessary. You would want to remove the alternate to buy you more "time" or "gas" once in the air if you get a reroute or are assigned holding. You can also remove it if your alternate drops below minimums and your destination airport no longer requires.
 
Since questions 1 & 2 are enroute and we're talking release amendments, what about a 10 hour Flag flight that has 5h59m flight time left, and your alternate fuel can buy you the extra fuel burn because your crew had to fly lower than planned?
 
DISCLAIMER: My cert is still a scrap of paper.
Since questions 1 & 2 are enroute and we're talking release amendments, what about a 10 hour Flag flight that has 5h59m flight time left, and your alternate fuel can buy you the extra fuel burn because your crew had to fly lower than planned?

I don't know. 121.621 says if a flight is scheduled for more than 6 hours it requires an alternate. Which leads me to think no because your flight was originally scheduled to be 10 hours.
But, 121.631(f) talks about changing alternates enroute so long as requirements are met at the time of the amendment. Does removing an alternate fall under the same rules as changing to a different one? If so, I guess its legal...?

Lay some knowledge on me please. I'm interested to know how this works.
 
If it was filed on on a refile flight plan then yes; otherwise no.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
Yes and Yes but not necessary. You would want to remove the alternate to buy you more "time" or "gas" once in the air if you get a reroute or are assigned holding. You can also remove it if your alternate drops below minimums and your destination airport no longer requires.
Happened to me had an alternate further away, changed it when he got stuck in holding to somewhere closer, and he was able to get in before the Wx got worse.
 
1. At two of the three airlines I have worked at, the answer is yes. At the third airline the question came up in training, when the class was being monitored by the faa, the POI in indianapolis claims you can not do that. I am not one to tell a POI he is wrong, so it is not as clear cut as it should be.
2. Yes
 
121.631(b) States, "however, the dispatch or flight release may be amended en route to include any alternate airport that is within the fuel range of the aircraft as specified in 121.639 through 121.647." To me that says that the ALTN can be changed but I don't see any FARs saying an ALTN can be removed completely. Can anyone back up any of the yes responses with FARs that would be applicable to the legality of removing an ALTN once it's listed on the Dispatch Release?
 
I would say that 121.631 (f) covers things, since that pretty much says you have required performance and meet all but a few rules in subpart U when ya change alternates.
 
Hello everyone from Hot Vegas!

1) Can you legally amend a release to remove an alternate once air born if the new forecast no longer calls for an alternate?

and

2) Can you legally amend a release to remove an alternate prior to departure if the new forecast it no longer calls for the alternate?

Thanks for everyones reply!

After talking with a few of my co-workers, another dispatcher at a major and a pilot, they all agree with me and say, Yes - to both since you can ammened a release!
 
DISCLAIMER: My cert is still a scrap of paper.


I don't know. 121.621 says if a flight is scheduled for more than 6 hours it requires an alternate. Which leads me to think no because your flight was originally scheduled to be 10 hours.
But, 121.631(f) talks about changing alternates enroute so long as requirements are met at the time of the amendment. Does removing an alternate fall under the same rules as changing to a different one? If so, I guess its legal...?

Lay some knowledge on me please. I'm interested to know how this works.

This is currently in the process of being enacted at some major carriers!
 
Thanks for everyones reply!

After talking with a few of my co-workers, another dispatcher at a major and a pilot, they all agree with me and say, Yes - to both since you can ammened a release!
This is currently in the process of being enacted at some major carriers!

This is correct, you can legally remove an alternate either way to give you more fuel as contingency/extra/hold in the event WX builds up on your filed route or get ATC reroutes.....but only if the forecast has improved.

This is acceptable according to both the inspectors handbook and the regulation.....

I have done this many times before and it is legal.

Who ever says it is not legal, provide the regulation that says you CANT do it.
 
Per our FSDO, if the destination required an ALTN via 1,2,3 rule..The ALTN can never be removed, only changed.
 
This is an interesting discussion, especially since there are conflicting opinions on this. I think the question that needs to be asked is, why? What exactly are your fuel REQUIREMENTS enroute? Consider the following: You plan minimum fuel with an alternate, which gives you the destination+alternate+45 minutes. You get a reroute that adds 10 minutes to your route. What action, if any, do you need to take?

First one with the correct answer wins!

Ready, GO!
 
Per our FSDO, if the destination required an ALTN via 1,2,3 rule..The ALTN can never be removed, only changed.


True, but I think the argument is that at some point the destination weather improves to meet the 1,2,3 rule. Obviously, if the destination weather still requires an alternate you cannot remove it arbitrarily.
 
This is an interesting discussion, especially since there are conflicting opinions on this. I think the question that needs to be asked is, why? What exactly are your fuel REQUIREMENTS enroute? Consider the following: You plan minimum fuel with an alternate, which gives you the destination+alternate+45 minutes. You get a reroute that adds 10 minutes to your route. What action, if any, do you need to take?

First one with the correct answer wins!

Ready, GO!

Turn over the flight to your relief and don't mention any of the above until you call in from your car rolling out of the parking lot because you "forgot" to mention that little bit of info.
 
My view is that if you can amend an alternate to any other airport within the fuel range of the aircraft then would not no alternate also be within the fuel range of the aircraft provided you've already satisfied the requirements of 121.631(f) which means you meet 121.593-661 and 121.173. So if no alternate is required at the time of amendment. Then I would say you can strike it from the record.
 
Back
Top