ALPA's Fatigue Recommendations to the FAA

You'd figure that an airline that had an accident that the NTSB tagged with "fatigue" would have a no fault fatigue policy. Officially, RAH has a no fault policy, but some retards in CS and management still haven't read the NTSB report. If they felt their job was on the line if there was another accident, they wouldn't be firing from the hip they way they do.
 
kellwolf said:
Yep. I totally forgot that I'd be losing money when I called in fatigued. The only thing I was concerned with was the fact that I wasn't mentally capable of flying an airplane for another 4 legs. Now, an FO that can't pay his bills.....what do you think HE'S gonna do?
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I'm serious though man.

If your union isn't going to bat to get your money back, I wouldn't have any problem exposing my company's financial penalty for acting in the interest of safety.
 
But you had legal rest, that means you can't be fatigued.


Oh snap, sorry I was channeling Mesa crew trackers there for a second!!
 
surreal1221 said:
I'm serious though man.

If your union isn't going to bat to get your money back, I wouldn't have any problem exposing my company's financial penalty for acting in the interest of safety.
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Basically, since it's not in the contract (the current one signed 10 years ago), the company will fight tooth and nail. If I see a DIME of that money, it'll be years from now after the grievance process and several appeals have gone through. I've got no problems exposing it right here or to anyone that asks. After all, the COMPANY is the one that made the policy. If they feel someone should be financially affected by doing the right and safe thing, they'll have to live with the consequences as well.
 
kellwolf said:
Thanks to our "non-punitive and non-intimidating" policy, I have a meeting with the base manager to "discuss" said fatigue call....
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Make sure you send in an ASRS report and a copy to your Congressman about having to call in fatigued and why. Mentioning the policy of doing a carpet dance for your base manager for following the rules would be good too.
 
Jake Wheeler said:
Make sure you send in an ASRS report and a copy to your Congressman about having to call in fatigued and why. Mentioning the policy of doing a carpet dance for your base manager for following the rules would be good too.
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Done and done. Also made comment on how the "non-punitive" policy took $225 out of my pocket for doing the safe thing.....
 
How do the CDOs work at the tranny if you don't mind telling me Todd.

Is it merely an extension of the regional CDOs? Except now with a bigger airplane.
 
surreal1221 said:
How do the CDOs work at the tranny if you don't mind telling me Todd.

Is it merely an extension of the regional CDOs? Except now with a bigger airplane.
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Probably the same as NWA. There are CDOs on the DC-9 and A-320 fleets and can be quite popular.
 
surreal1221 said:
How do the CDOs work at the tranny if you don't mind telling me Todd.

Is it merely an extension of the regional CDOs? Except now with a bigger airplane.
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We have about 14 CDO lines on the 717 and 10 CDO lines on the 737. Our contract requires that all CDOs be built only on CDO lines, so they can't mix them in with regular flying. You can only fly a max of 3 in a row, and then you have to have at least 3 days off. Typical CDO has a report time around 10pm, flies a 1.5 hour flight, spends 6 hours on a break in a hotel, and flies back. Duty day is usually about 10 hours, sometimes less for the shorter flights. We have some really great CDOs like ATL-CHS, or ATL-JAX, but then some really crappy ones like ATL-MSP show up occasionally. The new duty rules may kill the crappy ones, because they might not be able to cram those longer flights into the new duty day limits.

Nick said:
Probably the same as NWA. There are CDOs on the DC-9 and A-320 fleets and can be quite popular.
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CDOs always went very senior at NWA. Anyone know if DAL has kept them after the merger?

USAir used to fly CDOs on the 737 and DC-9 fleets back in the day. They went super-senior there, too.

At both companies, you got paid big bucks for them, because the night duty rig paid much higher than normal flying. You ended up getting paid 90 hours for 30 hours of flying. At AirTran, we just get guarantee under the current contract, but I suspect that will get better under the next contract.
 
Re: LPA's Fatigue Recommendations to the FAA

surreal1221 said:
Fall of next year.

Go through the NPRM circus, then take the FAA 180+ days to actually implement.
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Babbitt spoke at the Bombardier safey standdown and said some rules would be out before the end of the year. He said they are very serious about fatigue.
One of the other speakers at the conference said more studies are coming in and by definition, many if not most aircrews are 'fatigued'. They gave stats on 'cognitive decline' etc. Almost like flying with half a brain.
 
Re: LPA's Fatigue Recommendations to the FAA

That'd certainly be welcomed.

I thought the NPRM had to go through it's standard number of days before the rule change was implemented. Plus, hearing from those up in DC, that even after the NPRM, it would take a number of months for implementation.

Todd, your thoughts?
 
Re: LPA's Fatigue Recommendations to the FAA

surreal1221 said:
That'd certainly be welcomed.

I thought the NPRM had to go through it's standard number of days before the rule change was implemented. Plus, hearing from those up in DC, that even after the NPRM, it would take a number of months for implementation.

Todd, your thoughts?
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The Administrator can shorten the time for an NPRM, or disregard the NPRM process completely, at his discretion. In this case, though, I think he's only shortening the process. We're expecting the NPRM to be released before the of the year, and implementation sometime before next spring.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
CDOs always went very senior at NWA.
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I think if 9E had duty rigs, they'd be senior here as well. The way it's written now, the company tosses you about an extra 15-45 minutes of pay for CDOs. If it were a 1:2 rig (one hour of pay for each 2 hours on duty), you'd be seeing about an extra 3-4 HOURS of pay.

With us, as those rules in the thread stand, our CDOs would be toast. I can't think of very many that finish in 11 hours.
 
kellwolf said:
With us, as those rules in the thread stand, our CDOs would be toast. I can't think of very many that finish in 11 hours.
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The problem you guys have is the 6-hour on-duty break requirement, plus Barney has a problem with paying you 75 hours for doing 35 hours of flying, so he wants longer legs in the CDOs. With those two problems combined, all of your duty days stretch out too long.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The problem you guys have is the 6-hour on-duty break requirement, plus Barney has a problem with paying you 75 hours for doing 35 hours of flying, so he wants longer legs in the CDOs. With those two problems combined, all of your duty days stretch out too long.
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Yeah, we've got a MEM-MKE high speed now to go with MEM-JAX and MEM-MFE. Pretty sure MSP and DTW have even longer legs.
 
I liked CDOs at Mesa, EXCEPT the fact that you never got 'just a CDO'. You'd get a CDO to start off or end a 3-4 day trip and that sucked balls, most of the time.

I loved being on the stand-up reserve though. Went on duty at 6PM went off duty at 6AM, and since the last flight left Denver at like 9-10PM and the first one went out at 8AM I only had like 3-4 hours of actually waiting for a flight.
 
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