ALPA EC stalls on AAA integration decision

ZapBrannigan

ZapBrannigan

If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
May 24, 2007

Gentlemen:

Thank you for meeting with the ALPA Executive Council on Monday, May 21, and for the very professional and informative presentation in response to the Arbitration Award. Both presentations raised serious questions, concerns, and difficult issues. While both MECs, Merger Committees, and merger counsel have been intimately involved with each and every detail of the proceeding, the Executive Council had much to learn and consider.

After both presentations and Q & A periods were concluded, and during the next several days, the Executive Council deliberated over the very difficult issues. It became clear to all Executive Council members that the issues raised from both MECs are of critical importance to the AWA and AAA pilots, as well as all ALPA pilots and the piloting profession. Therefore, as stated in
the attached resolution, the Executive Council will require additional time and information to complete their deliberations.

The Executive Council requests that you advise your respective memberships of the Executive Council actions. I will be contacting each of you to discuss follow-up requests for information
and/or actions.
Fraternally,
John H. Prater
President


AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
96TH REGULAR EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING

PROPOSED RESOLUTION
1 WHEREAS the AAA MEC, on behalf of the AAA pilots, has requested
2 that the Executive Council set aside the Opinion and Award in the
3 Matter of the Seniority Integration of the Pilots of US Airways, Inc. and
4 the Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc. (the “Award”) and resubmit
5 the matter to a new Arbitration Board sitting with a different
6 arbitrator, and
7
8 WHEREAS the AWA MEC, on behalf of the AWA pilots, has argued
9 that the Executive Council lacks jurisdiction to review or set aside the
10 Award and that, in any event, there is no basis for doing so, and
AI #35
11
12 WHEREAS the Executive Council, acutely aware of the importance of
13 these issues to the pilots of both airlines as well as to the entire
14 Association, desires to fully consider the views of each group and fully
15 deliberate all issues raised in order to effectively discharge its
16 responsibilities, and
17
18 WHEREAS the Executive Council is also acutely aware of the negative
19 consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to
20 explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and
21 mutual success, and achieve an acceptable single collective bargaining
22 agreement that improves pay, benefits, work rules and job security for
23 both pilot groups,
24
25 THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President continue to
26 employ all the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in
27 achieving these goals, and
28
29 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that further consideration of this
30 agenda item is deferred to a special meeting of the Executive Council to
31 be called by the President to be held in June 2007.
 
US Airways MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE
May 25, 2007

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, May 25, 2007.

On behalf of the entire US Airways MEC I want to update you on recent action by ALPA’s Executive Council.

Late last night ALPA's Executive Council took action concerning the Nicolau arbitration award. Shortly, we will post on our website the resolution passed by the Executive Council and the letter Captain Prater sent to me and AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna.

These documents lay the foundation for seeking to right the injustices of this egregious award. The resolution states that the Executive Council is acutely aware of the negative consequences that may result if the MECs fail to come together to explore consensual approaches that promote career protection and mutual success…..

Additionally it goes on to direct ALPA President, Captain John Prater to continue to employ all of the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in achieving these goals.

Make no mistake; although many people worked tirelessly for this outcome, it would not have occurred absent the show of resolve demonstrated by the over 400 US Airways pilots who made the effort to go to ALPA headquarters in Herndon on May 21. Your participation, whether in person at Herndon last Monday or taking the time to express your concerns to your union leadership, clearly provided a poignant reminder that the pilots of US Airways cannot be left behind in ALPA’s efforts to take this union back.

While our request to have the award voided was not directly addressed at this time, we are nonetheless encouraged that the Executive Council has taken ownership of the issue as we advocated in our presentation as well as the direction that they have laid out for us. We will be providing you more information on the process before us after I have spoken with Captain Prater regarding his specific request for information and/or action.

Your solidarity in letting your views be known provided the wherewithal to convince the Executive Council that they could not remain silent on the issue before us. Your continued solidarity in that manner will be instrumental as we move forward as a union to effectively address the ramifications of the Nicolau award. Rest assured that your MEC continues to remain solely focused on exhausting every means available to represent the US Airways pilots.

Thank you for your support during this difficult time. And as always, fly safe and thanks for listening.
 
So in other words the EC doesn't want to touch this one and they are hoping that the resolution will send the two MECs back to the table together. Somehow I don't see that happening.
 
Normally I'd agree with you, but in this case, there really is a good chance that a decertification drive would run. And if it runs, I think it will probably pass. Remember, despite the fact that these guys have lost a lot of money, they still are a legacy airline and have somewhat legacy wages which will allow them to fund a legal effort to pull ALPA. We'll see.
 
BobDDuck said:
Normally I'd agree with you, but in this case, there really is a good chance that a decertification drive would run. And if it runs, I think it will probably pass. Remember, despite the fact that these guys have lost a lot of money, they still are a legacy airline and have somewhat legacy wages which will allow them to fund a legal effort to pull ALPA. We'll see.
Click to expand...


Only time will tell but there are a few things to remember. First the Airways guys did agree a few months ago to go with the arbitrators ruling. When it didn't go there way then they want to go back and change it? Is that right? I have a DEEP sympathy for those guys and it is not pretty, but it is what it is.

Secondly, so they decertify ALPA, then what? An independent union? They work at UPS and SWA, but would it work at Airways? It didn't work at FEDEX or Continental. Would this independent union have the resources to save one's job if/when you have a medical issue or FAA issue? What would happen then with the integration with the America West/Airways guys then? How would that be handled differently?

Yes it stinks for those guys, but what would decertifying ALPA truly solve?
 
Especially when it was THEIR MEC who insisted on DOH, stonewalled and eventually ended up at the arbitrator. So, instead of recalling the MEC (who just did what the membership wanted), let's decertify and abandon the National Union.

Yeah, that's a good idea!
 
Seggy said:
Yes it stinks for those guys, but what would decertifying ALPA truly solve?
Click to expand...

Would a non ALPA union make things better at US? Probably not. The way things stand now, a nuclear bomb wouldn't make things better. However, right now, all the guys over there are worried about is career expectations and voting out ALPA out to some extent protect those expectations. With another union in place all the agreed to ALPA integration policy goes out the window and would no longer be recognized. A new "union" would be voted in (51% and the AAA pilots are WAY more then 51% of the new airline). ALPA would scream bloody murder about "their" AWA union getting destroyed, but unfortunatly, under the RLA their isn't much they can do about it. Then you have an inhouse union (or the teamsters for that matter) who would set integration based on date of hire. Things would get tied up in court for years and years, which is all the AAA guys really want anyways because every day that goes by with two lists a few more AAA guys retire and people on the east side move up. If they could delay the integration for 15 years I don't think many people would have problems with it.

One thing I found interesting was that during the EC presentations the AAA group focused on how the award went against ALPA merger policy (mostly no windfalls) while the AWA group really didn't defend the award but simply said, it was binding arbitration and hence, even if it violates policy you have to deal with it.

Again, as you said, we'll see what happens.

(Sorry about spelling in this one. I'm on my other computer with no spell checker built into Firefox.)
 
BobDDuck said:
With another union in place all the agreed to ALPA integration policy goes out the window and would no longer be recognized. A new "union" would be voted in (51% and the AAA pilots are WAY more then 51% of the new airline). ALPA would scream bloody murder about "their" AWA union getting destroyed, but unfortunatly, under the RLA their isn't much they can do about it. Then you have an inhouse union (or the teamsters for that matter) who would set integration based on date of hire.
Click to expand...

I don't believe any of this is correct. Once the seniority list is in place it is the seniority list. The idea that a new union could unilaterally wipe the slate clean and rearrange the list has no basis in fact as far as I know. They would have to negotiate the right to do that as part of their first contract with the company. And the company would resist or at least expect off-setting cost concessions as this would be an expensive proposition for them.

I'm guessing the list stays as the arbitrator declared and it gets challenged in court, unsuccessfully, for years just as pretty much every other list has been.

There have been a lot of claims that this action somehow violated ALPA policy. How exactly did it do that? There is no policy of DOH integration. In the absence of an agreement between the parties it went to arbitration and was decided. ALPA leadership is just up a tree because they don't know how to mollify the AAA pilots who may indeed lead the group out of ALPA. Or at least burn the place down as much as possible.
 
I went back and actually looked at the certification section of the RLA... you are right. A shop's seniority list can not be changed due to a change in certification. However I think if a new union was in place prior to the lists actually being merged there would be huge law suits as to whether a new list could be forced upon a union who never agreed to the terms the list. I would think in the end they would lose, but it would take years and that is all AAA really wants anyways.

As far as DOH not being in ALPA policy. I agree. That went away after the potential AAA UAL merger. I think what they are arguing is the windfalls that may or may not have occurred. Depending on who's data you look at either there was a huge windfall to the west or none at all. Heck, some people may even be arguing that those top 517 slots contribute a windfall to the east. I really don't know.
 
The problem with the whole thing is the AWA guys misunderstood and thought it was BINDING arbitration. No, wait...it WAS binding arbitration. Huh!

Look at it this way...if you were at AWA and were a month away from upgrade and they merged DOH, is it reasonable that you should now have to wait MANY years? And if you were at AAA and there was no upgrade in the foreseeable future, (not even considering the imminent liquidation which is under much debate by both sides) are you entitled to upgrade and leap up the seniority list simply because your company has been around longer? Nobody at AWA asked to staple (ala TWA) because that was not equitable, reasonable, or fair. But let's be honest, if you are the number 49% pilot in your company, should a merger with another company entitle you to anything more than that or subject you to anything worse? They didn't get screwed, they just didn't get thrust forward and they don't think that's fair. While they have indisputably suffered economic hardships in the past, nobody ever promised them this merger was going be the way back to the top of the economic heap. I can't blame them for wanting more, but the game is over and it's time to start looking forward and coming up with ways to be a more successful company, leading to a more successful pilot group.

Will they try to decertify ALPA? Maybe, but while the bottom half of the pilots are trying to burn the house down, the top half will be wanting to get down to business and maximize their earnings before retirement (ie, get a new and better contract). I suspect it's going to be AWA + the top half of AAA vs. the bottom half of AAA if it ever comes to that. The real problem is ALPA didn't have the stones to defend they're own bylaws and tell the AAA group the game is over. Giving them false hope as to what may or may not occur only acts to agitate the situation. AWA didn't defend the merits of the award because the don't have to. They only had to refer to ALPA's own rules (which they did) and the award should be upheld. PERIOD.

Sadly, it's not even about right or wrong anymore. It's become "what's better for me vs. what's better for you" and no matter how you slice it, that's pretty messed up. That's my opinion, and that and another buck isn't enough to buy anyone a cup of coffee. Sorry about the rant. Flame away!
 
flyinawa said:
Look at it this way...if you were at AWA and were a month away from upgrade and they merged DOH, is it reasonable that you should now have to wait MANY years? And if you were at AAA and there was no upgrade in the foreseeable future, (not even considering the imminent liquidation which is under much debate by both sides) are you entitled to upgrade and leap up the seniority list simply because your company has been around longer? Nobody at AWA asked to staple (ala TWA) because that was not equitable, reasonable, or fair. But let's be honest, if you are the number 49% pilot in your company, should a merger with another company entitle you to anything more than that or subject you to anything worse?
Click to expand...

No flame from me. But, if you were a captain or FO on the AAA side and you'd been at AAA for 10-20 years and you just got stapled to AWA, or displaced from captain to FO? Is that fair? Is it fair that some one with a lower hire date at the merger company now is more senior to you?

Just wanted to let you see things from the other side of the fence!
 
Did most everyone end up at the same percentage in the combined group as they were at their separate groups?
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Is it fair that some one with a lower hire date at the merger company now is more senior to you?
Click to expand...

Well I don't know about "is it fair......?" cause there are a hundred of those types of questions in every integration and I don't remember a list integration that didn't involve some junior guy (by DOH) ending up senior to someone with an earlier hire date. If you are implying that the only fair way is DOH I would disagree.
 
flyover said:
Well I don't know about "is it fair......?" cause there are a hundred of those types of questions in every integration and I don't remember a list integration that didn't involve some junior guy (by DOH) ending up senior to someone with an earlier hire date. If you are implying that the only fair way is DOH I would disagree.
Click to expand...

Somebody has to get screwed in a merger. I think the issue here is that a good chunk, not just the unlucky few at AAA got stapled.
 
seagull, the list had the top 500+ guys all AAA. Therefore, the TOP percentages went in their favor. (IE, an AW CA in the 20%s might have dropped by 3 or 4 percent). Then the list went by a series of ratios so the lower 20% of AWA guys might have gained a few percent. Since it was based entirely of ACTIVE pilots the inactive furloughs were placed on the bottom of the list.

Max, This is undeniable an integration and yet you consider it a staple job. If you are referring to the furloughed employees, then yes, I suppose you can say they were stapled. If you want to see what a staple job looks like, I would refer you to the AA-TWA "integration". Can you honestly compare that to AWA/USAir?

I can't help but wonder if JetBlue would have bought USAir, do you feel the right thing to do would have been for all of their pilots go Jr. to ALL of the USAir pilots, including furloughed? Little fish eating (or merging with) bigger fish is the reason utilizing DOH isn't, well....reasonable.

As Dennis Miller use to say, "but hey, that's just my opinion and I might be wrong"
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Somebody has to get screwed in a merger. I think the issue here is that a good chunk, not just the unlucky few at AAA got stapled.
Click to expand...

Well certainly somebody has to believe they got screwed in every merger. At least that's the history. Where it usually gets really nasty is when one group thinks they should be made whole for past injustices by reclaiming their seats through a list integration. Whether that's what is "fair" or not, it usually doesn't happen.
 
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