Alpa Doesn't Look As Good As It Used To

Airdale said:
I will come out of my cave of abuse to say that I was surprised by this post Firechicken. I was afraid it was an Anti ALPA thread, but you have me impressed. Good post. I wish you guys the best of luck.

I'm about an eject button away from taking a job at Marine Max with the recent events unfolding here. I'm forced into a financial corner that I will soon need to jump out of. I bombed one interview, and the last interview started rolling downhill when the guy said that Colgan is where their company wash outs go and pretty much my 121 experience is about the same as 500hrs and a Jet course. Naturally this set the tone for the HR portion of pretty much them wanting me to drool over an RJ. Not gonna happen. I'm a Beech driver, but whatever.

I'm on the edge of turning my back to this entire industry and walking for good. But goodluck to you guys.
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Way to stand your ground. I Flew freight for 4 years while the industry was uber bad post 9/11 so I have no respect for SJS. I'm a Saab CA and proud to be screwing my way around the country instead of blowing my way around. I pray I don't have to transition to an RJ any time soon. I hope my next type has an A B or D, not a C.
 
Doug, you can count me in on the whole deal. I went from "Yeah, ALPA is kinda necessary" to "Where can I sign up?" in about 6 months over here.

I think the image that ALPA is "your father's union" is SPOT on. I see a LOT of young kids think they're invincible and can spend their 2% better than on ALPA. They also have no friggin clue as to what's going on in contract negotiations and often lean management's way b/c the memos they send out tell them exactly what they want to hear. I've managed to get a couple reading b/w the lines of management's memos. Management isn't just gonna magnaimously raise FO wages. They're getting something out of the deal. You have to ask yourself "What am I giving up if I agree to this?" Answer lately has been health care premiums, days off and retro pay. If we had caved to their offer of jacking the FO rate, they would be able to get off the street FOs again, and we'd lose any leverage we have. As it is, the last several classes have had fewer than 5 FOs in them, and we've more or less got them on the ropes.

Without the FOs, there's NO way they'll make the Delta flying work without cancelling most of the NWA flying, thus triggering another round of penalty payments. Shareholders don't generally like that kind of mis-management.
 
If you want anyone from my famous and much loved carrier YV, I'll lend a hand. :)

(I'm actually a volunteer on a couple of the ALPA committees here FWIW)
 
dvtpilot said:
If you want anyone from my famous and much loved carrier YV, I'll lend a hand. :)

(I'm actually a volunteer on a couple of the ALPA committees here FWIW)
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You're already drafted!

If anyone knows the "Everyone's picking on my employer, I don't care but I'm still going to represent proudly" it's Mesa pilots.

Stand by for details! ;)
 
dvtpilot said:
If you want anyone from my famous and much loved carrier YV, I'll lend a hand. :)

(I'm actually a volunteer on a couple of the ALPA committees here FWIW)
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DVT, Are they still not releasing the negotiating commitee guys from flying due to the "shortage"?
 
Did I see revolution?

Is ALPA putting up banner(s) here at JC yet? :)

I'd love to . . .as I'm sure I'll catch flack from some. . .to spread the ALPA support at my local employer. More so than I do already.
 
Seggy said:
The best timeframe to approach ALPA I would say would be in March/April. By that time HOPEFULLY, the USAirways/America West debacle will be over, and the powers that be will have the time to devote to this.

What issues do you have? I think we keep it simple at first. We approach ALPA as a group who want to mentor and help those coming up the training pipeline. Then we specifically talk issues to those we are mentoring.
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Issues I think need addressing:

1. Overhauling ALPA's image:

Industry-wide. ie, Reaching out, educating the new generation while getting the older generations on board to help mentor. Avoiding any 'out with the old, in with the new' or 'damned young punk' mentalities and rooting out that thinking is paramount. Meet and greets and jumpseat chats would do, but I know somebody else has better ideas than I on this.

2. Better services not just to ALPA pilot groups but NON ALPA groups as well as management (Gasp!) and the flying public. Public ad campaigns, sure.. But I'm thinking airport offices where people can go with issues, be they airline headshed, nonrepped pilots or just the general public. ALPA has the tenure and credibility to become the dominant voicebox for those concerned with the way the job gets done, not just how the numbers add up. Currently it seems like ALPA only comes up as an authoritative source when pilots have something to gripe about.

3. Pilot Mentoring and guidance at the earliest levels. Dare I say it: Pilot training scholarships. Ab initio airline programs or "buy the jet job" from 0 hours are closer than we think. Either that, or barely English-speaking foreign pilots of questionable credentials. American skies should be cruised by American pilots! A scholarship foundation, granted to a small number and increasing as funds allow, would GREATLY help this. A stipulation of the program could also be guaranteed interview/placement with an air carrier. An ALPA air carrier.

4. Job placement assistance for pilots looking to escape non-unionized carriers. Obviously we view ALPA as ideal, but we have to be supportive of other union groups, ie Teamsters, etc. What we're trying to prevent is the overrun of union carriers by "race to the bottom" carriers.


Technically, I think you could divide this into a three-prong strategy:

1: Greater outreach by ALPA to ALL pilots everywhere, and
groups closely affected by airline conditions.

2. Career mentoring services- from 0 hours to ATP and beyond
including job selection counseling for the up and comer to job
transition assistance for those already in the ranks.

3. Legislation. A change in existing labor law to provide a scope/ arbitration requirement for when a Holdings
company with a union airline acquires a non-union airline.
Using 'whip-saw' tactics is clearly a loophole used to
circumvent established labor law and it should be CLOSED.


I think after the first of the year would be a great time to start to address alot of the legislative issues.. considering we'll likely have a HUGE regime chance in Washington.
 
In fairness to ALPA, unionism is down heavily in every industry (other than gov't). Also, the economics of the airline industry are dismal, so it's not like ALPA has had much to work with the past few years. Unfortunately, "Things would suck alot worse if we weren't here" isn't a terribly great ad slogan.
 
I've got a friend who works in ALPA's communications department. Some of you have met him.

Want me to see if I can find out anything that they've got in mind? Or clue him in that you folks want to do this?
 
Doug, I'd be happy to help out with this if you need anything. I know most of the Officers and staff in Herndon and reps at many of the MECs. I may not work at an ALPA carrier anymore, but I definitely know the organization. Just let me know.
 
With the current situation regarding two large ALPA carriers, they won't be able to work with us until it is resolved. I think that after they are done with that, ALPA might do a little inhouse cleaning of programs and our ideas might be extremely attractive to them.

Our best bet, in my mind, would be have a program idea in place, then approach them in the March/April timeframe.
 
Seggy said:
With the current situation regarding two large ALPA carriers, they won't be able to work with us until it is resolved. I think that after they are done with that, ALPA might do a little inhouse cleaning of programs and our ideas might be extremely attractive to them.

Our best bet, in my mind, would be have a program idea in place, then approach them in the March/April timeframe.
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Probably a good plan. The USAPA guys just filed with the NMB for a vote yesterday, so ALPA will be busy for the next few months dealing with that nonsense. After that's over with, ALPA will have a lot more time to deal with these sorts of issues.
 
BUMP


I had suggested our poor, overworked site operator and compadre, Doug, to run this rabble-rousing campaign, but he is as mentioned above.

Er.. so yeah. I opened my big mouth, so I'll raise my hand and volunteer.:hiya:
Maybe this time it won't get me sent to a third world country.
:D



That being said, I'll start coordinating an actual real-time event for sometime in the early new year. Initial timing will be based on a few things on my personal calendar as well as ALPA's. Actual event dates will later be hashed out for maximum attendance.

That being said, keep this thread alive with ideas and related events to union rejuvenation ideas.


This should be interesting.......
 
Everything you folks are talking about, with reguard to education, is in the works. It just takes time. Check back with ALPA.org around mid JAN 08.
 
Doug Taylor said:
So lets get the revolution started.

We've got the bandwidth, the traffic and for lack of a better description, a brand name.

We'll ramp up the mentoring, hold more 'meet and greets', maybe even hit the newbies at the collegiate level to educate them.

Ideas?

Seriously. I think if we take the same spirit of NetworkJC with mentoring, social functions where people can meet one another and the roundtable discussions and broaden it out a few fold, we can probably start making a different in the profession a lot faster.

Talk is cheap, but action drives results, no? ;)
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Just so we make sure this doesn't get lost forever! August will be around the corner in lickity split time and the time is now to start this thing as Doug so elliquently termed;
We're going to do this!

2008's going to be the year of "Lock 'n load or STFU!" :)
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It's time to drop all the "I hate RJ's", "low time pilots suck", and Jet-U is "Simply the Best" bull #### arguing and get together for the common good of the profession. That crap doesn't and never has belonged on JC(except in the Lav:D)!:bandit:

Has anyone come up with some new ideas since this was posted back in November?
 
I must apologize as I had no idea this thread even existed...

Two habits from the book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" are as follows:

1. Begin with the end in mind.
2. Seek first to understand, then be understood.

I think this is an excellent venture, and I look forward to helping out in any way that I can. I'm still a newbie, and relatively young, but I love working with youth and empowering them so that they can make a difference in their lives as well as the lives of others. I think as we utilize the above two principles (and there are other besides those), we can really make a difference on both ends: the union side (with the image presented to the new generation of pilots), and the pilot side (with the understanding of what it means to be a member of a unique professional community -- an airline pilot).
 
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