Aloha stops flying: 61 years come to an end March 31
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
blee256
Well-Known Member
Growing up in Hawaii, I often flew Aloha airlines. This local carrier has been around so long and is a true 'kama'aiana' company. If you've never taken a flight on Aloha airlines, you've surely missed the "Aloha" spirit that our 50th state is known for. It is a true tragedy when a honest-run, quality-based, airline with such high on-time performance is put out. Everyone here in Hawaii will lose because of this. EVERYONE.
I jumpseated on Aloha once, from HNL to OGG. Everyone from the gate agent to the pilots to the FAs were awesome. Its definitely sad to see a "homegrown" airline go away.
This just pissed me off. A friend of mine is without a job now because of that scum sucking lowlife Orenstein.
I have a good friend that started there earlier this year. Now I guess she is out of a job. Its sucks to see stuff like this happen, especially when you have close friends there. However to blame this all on JO or Mesa is ridiculous. I think you guys are just looking for someone to point a finger at. Mesa is a business. It exists to make money. Contrary to popular belief airlines are run for profit (or at least supposed to be), not to enrich pilots.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Do some more research. Mesa wasn't operating as a legitimate competitor. The courts already awarded $80 million to Hawaiian from Mesa because of illegal practices from JO, and they'll probably award a lot more the Aloha's creditors assuming that that case goes forward. JO violated a confidentiality agreement that gave Mesa an unfair advantage and at least one other company executive took part in disposing of evidence illegally. The whole operation is despicable.
Number1atNumber2
Tries to keep it fun.
I hope this buries Mesa, #### JO and his management.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
American Eagle.
blee256
Well-Known Member
Dont forget Pinnacle and Mesaba. Compass too, maybe?
I know a lil about what happened. But seriously, you're telling me a "start up" GO! airlines that operates 4 crjs for took out a hometown airline of 60 plus years that operates 20 or so 737s in less than 2 years? come on now! I am sure it didnt help, but its definitely not the overwhelming cause of Aloha's demise.
I dont like JO, i am not advocating his management style. But I dont agree with people's assessment of Mesa killing Aloha.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Go! drove fares down to unimaginable levels, and the real Island carriers had to match to compete. JO openly admitted that he was taking massive losses to sap market share away from the legit carriers. Sorry, but JO killed Aloha. Burn in hell, Orenstein!
E6BAV8R
Well-Known Member
Playing devil's advocate here:
Why couldn't Hawaiian and Aloha keep their fares at their existing prices? From what I could find Go! has 7 CRJ-200s, which isn't really going to hold a candle to a rather large fleet of 732, but I don't really know the load factors around Hawaii either. If JO was taking such a 'massive loss' to attempt to take away market share from the other competitors, which he would have done if he rock-bottomed prices and the other competitors stayed the same, you can only fit so many people on a CRJ on a specific route and time and anyone else traveling would be forced to fly on Aloha and Hawaiian. Would Aloha and Hawaiian lose a good majority of their business in this expenditure? Of course.
However, since JO was taking such a big loss, do you not think such a rather large airline in Hawaii could afford to stay in business longer than JO before JO's investors realized how much money they are losing and they stop backing him and he is forced to raise his prices up to respectable levels?
Just throwing some thoughts out there...
Nick
Well-Known Member
808av8
Well-Known Member
Last summer, June I believe, go! was offering $2 one way fares to the neighbor islands. That's really hard to compete with- especially when you're not backed by a relatively larger company (Mesa) who could basically use the losses at go! as a tax write-off. I'm not upset with anyone employed by Mesa or go!. Just very sad to see Aloha leave.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Any word if Hawaiian will increase their schedule to assist the Aloha passengers? I know UAL is stepping in to help West Coast traffic, but they better NOT start inter-island travel.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The problem is that Mesa is being subsidized by code-share traffic on the mainland. They can take heavy losses in the small Go! operation because it covered by income from the traditional code-share operations. Mesa could last practically indefinitely, even at those ridiculously low fares. If the real Hawaiian carriers refused to match his prices, then he would get 100% load factors and start bringing in more airplanes to keep sapping away business until eventually driving the real carriers out of business, at which point he would raise his own prices, of course.
But this is all ignoring the real problem: the whole operation was started under illegal circumstances!!! He violated a confidentiality agreement and destroyed evidence. Orenstein is the devil.
aerospacepilot
New Member
Re: 40 more Go! flights a day
Go increases flights from 54 to 94 daily departures beginning April 1st. WOW!!
Go increases flights from 54 to 94 daily departures beginning April 1st. WOW!!
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Re: 40 more Go! flights a day
This happens everyday in the world around us.
I think what we are seeing in the state of HI is a miniature version of what is going on/going to happen on the mainland. Go! is the ultra low LCC, Aloha is the legacy behemoth. Brace for it.
This happens everyday in the world around us.
I think what we are seeing in the state of HI is a miniature version of what is going on/going to happen on the mainland. Go! is the ultra low LCC, Aloha is the legacy behemoth. Brace for it.
Velocipede
New Member
Re: 40 more Go! flights a day
Brace for it? How about doing something about it? Use your jumpseat to keep non-Union LCC pilots from commuting.
Its a start.
Brace for it? How about doing something about it? Use your jumpseat to keep non-Union LCC pilots from commuting.
Its a start.
PurduePilot
New Member
Re: 40 more Go! flights a day
That won't stop it. It'll be like putting a straw in the ocean. You've got to change the way the public looks at these airlines.
I'd suggest ALPA runs some PSA ads during prime-time in the major markets describing the downsides to these types of airlines. Not to bash ALPA or any of the other unions for that matter, but I have not seen any type of public awareness campaign (aside from an occasional ad in USAToday). They've got out and educate the public with a hard and heavy campaign. It will cost money, but it's got to be done.
That won't stop it. It'll be like putting a straw in the ocean. You've got to change the way the public looks at these airlines.
I'd suggest ALPA runs some PSA ads during prime-time in the major markets describing the downsides to these types of airlines. Not to bash ALPA or any of the other unions for that matter, but I have not seen any type of public awareness campaign (aside from an occasional ad in USAToday). They've got out and educate the public with a hard and heavy campaign. It will cost money, but it's got to be done.
Velocipede
New Member
Re: 40 more Go! flights a day
And that would be a total waste of money. All Americans care about is low fares. They couldn't give a fig if the F/O on their Skybus flight has a grand total of 350/50. All they're looking for is a $10 fare.
And while you're right that my proposal won't change anything in a macro sense, any time we can make it difficult for one of the jerks who take these jobs to commute, it tosses another little monkey wrench into their system.
And that would be a total waste of money. All Americans care about is low fares. They couldn't give a fig if the F/O on their Skybus flight has a grand total of 350/50. All they're looking for is a $10 fare.
And while you're right that my proposal won't change anything in a macro sense, any time we can make it difficult for one of the jerks who take these jobs to commute, it tosses another little monkey wrench into their system.
PurduePilot
New Member
Re: 40 more Go! flights a day
Which why ALPA has got to hit it hard with really damning commercials; a type of "scared straight" approach.
I can see one ad dealing with pilot fatigue, another dealing with poor maintenance, and another dealing with low time pilots and pay.
The theme could be "what are you really getting for your $50 fare?"
Which why ALPA has got to hit it hard with really damning commercials; a type of "scared straight" approach.
I can see one ad dealing with pilot fatigue, another dealing with poor maintenance, and another dealing with low time pilots and pay.
The theme could be "what are you really getting for your $50 fare?"
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: 40 more Go! flights a day
You know that Go!, which is operated by pilots on the Mesa seniority list, are ALPA, right?
You know that Go!, which is operated by pilots on the Mesa seniority list, are ALPA, right?