Alaska Airline flight cockpit lockdown

[ChasenSFO]

Ok...I'm curious at the reactions here. Harmless? Sure. But why do people have to do this stuff on airplanes? If not a threat, its still seems really, really annoying if you're sitting next to them. If I was sitting next to them I wouldn't feel unsafe, but I'd probably say something along the lines of "Dude, seriously?". At least do it in the terminal or something where people aren't shoulder to shoulder with you?

 

[A150K]

You should all just become angry heathen atheists like me. It's much more fun. If you just stand back and look at it all objectively, strapping black boxes of scripture to your arms is slightly less strange than belief in Transubstantiation. Just sayin'.

Hey, sounds good to me. I can't think of any Atheist rituals that involve stapping a small black box to one's self on an airplane.

 

[pullup]

And your all a bunch of retards - well those of you on a hair trigger.

So a little birdy is telling me that there wasnt any hype on the actual plane. That the flight crew just 'locked down' the flight deck and had authorities meet the aircraft at the gate (I.e. law enforcement waited for them to deboard). No one knew the wiser. Apparently, they werent even asked to stop the ritual.

Hence why I didnt think it was a big deal. Maybe some more hard evidence will come out to clear this event up!

If it's not a big enough deal to stop them, etc then why would it be a big enough deal to have authorities meet them? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Winglet]

Ok...I'm curious at the reactions here. Harmless? Sure. But why do people have to do this stuff on airplanes? If not a threat, its still seems really, really annoying if you're sitting next to them. If I was sitting next to them I wouldn't feel unsafe, but I'd probably say something along the lines of "Dude, seriously?". At least do it in the terminal or something where people aren't shoulder to shoulder with you?

I used to be an orthodox jew (i'm now a practicing athiest) but I still keep my "tefillin" boxes as they were a gift from my recently deceased grandfather.

I used to do the ritual every morning during prayer. Its a bit silly, as many rituals are, but like all rituals it has its symbolic purpose.

The tefillin must be put on during the morning prayer and the morning prayer is time sensitive. So the orthodox jew will need to make due and put them on and pray wherever he is at the time as to not miss the prayer time.

Trust me, donning the prayer shawl and the tefillin cause no more disturbance to another passenger than taking off a coat or taking off a watch. The prayers can be conducted silenlty however many orthodox jews preffer to actually pronounce the words aloud (tho not required), most often never over the level of a whisper, because it seams more sincere. It seams to me that some passengers who were un-familiar (or crew actually) over reacted a bit. MORE likely the crew werent trained properly on rituals that they might encounter. I know of many airlines that familiarize this stuff with the FAs.

 

[Bigey]

If it's not a big enough deal to stop them, etc then why would it be a big enough deal to have authorities meet them? Makes no sense to me.

I hear you and I agree. I'm just trying to see the "other" side here. Maybe after they locked down the flight deck, dispatch found out and notified authorities. The way it was painted to me was that they flight crew didnt know what was happening, so they cautioned on the side of caution (albeit potentially wrong).

 

[SurferLucas]

I hear you and I agree. I'm just trying to see the "other" side here. Maybe after they locked down the flight deck, dispatch found out and notified authorities. The way it was painted to me was that they flight crew didnt know what was happening, so they cautioned on the side of caution (albeit potentially wrong).

From what I've heard today from an AS FO friend...the group in question started their prayers in flight, and in a somewhat loud manner. The FA's weren't told what was going on and did exactly as they're trained to do, and did was prudent at the time. They had left Mexico City (not exactly the safest place in the world), flying to LAX (one of the largest cities on the West Coast of the US...and surely a terrorist target) and were affixing boxes to their bodies with straps. Now given that, you see why they would call up to the Flight Deck and warn the pilots. In the end, they followed their gut feeling and did what they thought was prudent.

Fact of the matter is, you and I were not there. We don't know how it happened, why it happened and what was going through the minds of those making the decisions.

If I were the Captain and one of the FA's calls up and says "We've got a group of people strapping boxes to their bodies and saying prayers", that raises a suspicion to me and I'm not going to "wait and see".

There are certain things that are ok to do on an airplane, and there are things that are going to raise suspicion. This is one of those times when it might have been best to wait for landing.

 

[at1024]

My main question is why would one feel the need to do this with a bunch of strangers on an airplane? To me it just makes more sense do this either in private or in a group type setting with other like minded believers.

Also on another note relating to aviation security...you've really had your head in the sand if you don't think that any type of behavior out of the ordinary is going to set off some sort of red flag aboard ANY 121 flight. It's the just the way things are these days...

 

[pullup]

From what I've heard today from an AS FO friend...the group in question started their prayers in flight, and in a somewhat loud manner. The FA's weren't told what was going on and did exactly as they're trained to do, and did was prudent at the time. They had left Mexico City (not exactly the safest place in the world), flying to LAX (one of the largest cities on the West Coast of the US...and surely a terrorist target) and were affixing boxes to their bodies with straps. Now given that, you see why they would call up to the Flight Deck and warn the pilots. In the end, they followed their gut feeling and did what they thought was prudent.

Fact of the matter is, you and I were not there. We don't know how it happened, why it happened and what was going through the minds of those making the decisions.

If I were the Captain and one of the FA's calls up and says "We've got a group of people strapping boxes to their bodies and saying prayers", that raises a suspicion to me and I'm not going to "wait and see".

There are certain things that are ok to do on an airplane, and there are things that are going to raise suspicion. This is one of those times when it might have been best to wait for landing.

Fair enough, I can see that POV.

 

[dasleben]

MORE likely the crew werent trained properly on rituals that they might encounter. I know of many airlines that familiarize this stuff with the FAs.

That would be a great idea. I'd like to see that implemented. I have to agree with Lucas; if an FA calls up and says that there are men praying and strapping boxes to their bodies, I think any of us would have done the same.

 

[Minuteman]

Statement from Alaska Airlines (via facebookus):

This just in: Our Internal Review of Yesterday's Flight 241 (Mexico City to Los Angeles)
by Alaska Airlines on Monday, March 14, 2011 at 11:56pm

Shortly after Flight 241 departed from Mexico City bound for Los Angeles yesterday, flight attendants observed unusual behavior from three male passengers that continued during the four-hour flight. Out of concern for the safety of all of the passengers onboard, the crew erred on the side of caution and authorities were notified. The crew did not realize at the time that the passengers were Orthodox Jews engaging in prayer ritual in Hebrew.

Here are a few of the issues that concerned the flight crew:

• Flight attendants instructed everyone to stay seated with their seatbelts fastened as the aircraft flew through turbulence shortly after takeoff. The three passengers disregarded repeated requests, however, and stood up several times to retrieve objects from their luggage in the overhead bin that the crew had never seen, including small black boxes fastened with what appeared to be black tape. The crew learned after the plane landed that these were tefillin boxes worn during the prayer ritual.
• The men prayed aloud together in a language unfamiliar to the crew while wearing what appeared to be black tape and wires strapped to their forearms and foreheads and wires on their chests. Their actions and behavior made some other travelers and the crew uneasy. The three passengers responded, but provided very little explanation, to a flight attendant’s questions about the tefillin boxes and what they were doing.
• Later in the flight, two of the three passengers visited the lavatories together while the third waited in the aisle and continually looked around the cabin and toward the flight deck door. Flight attendants thought he appeared anxious, as if he were standing guard.

The safety and security of our passengers is our top priority. While our flight crews must be vigilant in watching for suspicious behavior, they are also trained to be aware and recognize the personalities and practices of a very broad and diverse group of travelers. Out of an abundance of caution to protect all of our customers, we misinterpreted the behavior of the three passengers who were praying and wearing tefillin.

We embrace the cultural and religious diversity of our passengers and employees. We apologize for the experience these three passengers went through after landing in Los Angeles as well as for any inconvenience to our other customers onboard. To help make sure this misunderstanding does not happen again, we plan to incorporate awareness training of Orthodox Jewish religious practices into our ongoing diversity and inclusion efforts. We’ve asked the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle for their assistance to help us better serve our Orthodox Jewish customers and employees alike.

 

[MikeD]

We embrace the cultural and religious diversity of our passengers and employees. We apologize for the experience these three passengers went through after landing in Los Angeles as well as for any inconvenience to our other customers onboard. To help make sure this misunderstanding does not happen again, we plan to incorporate awareness training of Orthodox Jewish religious practices into our ongoing diversity and inclusion efforts. We’ve asked the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle for their assistance to help us better serve our Orthodox Jewish customers and employees alike.

So FAs are now going to be expected to know the prayer rituals of every religion the world over? This going to be part of their checkride now?

 

[SurferLucas]

Statement from Alaska Airlines (via facebookus):

That last bullet point is what would have been the "last straw" for me, if I were a FA. Standing guard in the aisle is not a common thing and it would have made me very uneasy as a non-rev/jumpseater sitting in the back.

It's a learning experience for everyone involved, and I'm glad AAG is reaching out to the Jewish Federation for assistance. Being open-minded is a two way street.

So FAs are now going to be expected to know the prayer rituals of every religion the world over? This going to be part of their checkride now?

Probably not a great idea...example, a group bent on taking down an airliner stages a "prayer" during a flight...the FA's see it as something they've been trained to watch for, are trying to show that they're not jumping to conclusions and do nothing.

 

[SIUav8er]

Good thing there wasnt an armed Air Marshall on board! I dont care what your religion is, standing up and getting "boxes" out of your luggage and strapping them to your body while praying out load is NOT a smart thing to do post 9/11.

 

[surreal1221]

Well well well...a Jewish thread on JetCareers...in a previous life I would have had quite the good time, but I've realized...I'd rather read the Flight Simulator thread.

 

[SurferLucas]

Well well well...a Jewish thread on JetCareers...in a previous life I would have had quite the good time, but I've realized...I'd rather read the Flight Simulator thread.

Can you atleast tell me if I can log my time on FSX? Or if you think it'd be a good investment in my airline future to go ahead and get used to flying the CRJ900 and EMB 170?

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Can you atleast tell me if I can log my time on FSX? Or if you think it'd be a good investment in my airline future to go ahead and get used to flying the CRJ900 and EMB 170?

Only if you load and run it from the right seat. You will not see the left seat for 3-5years even in FSX.

 

[greaper007]

As a godless non-practicing atheist I find all religious rituals sophomoric and comical. As a bleeding heart liberal though, I'll defend your right to perform them. I'm also wondering if the FA's asked any of them what was going on, and why one of them didn't inform the FA what was going on? Get out of a city like NY or LA and there are wide swaths of the country that have never met a Jewish person, let alone an Orthodox Jew. I remember that in 5th grade or so we had Hanukkahs as a spelling test word when I lived in Texas. First the kids asked what was that, when it was explained that it was a Jewish holiday, their next question was "What's Jewish?" Even at 11 I was amused and appalled, but I digress.

It seems like if you practice a boutique religion it would be prudent to inform people around you that, "This looks a little goofy, but I assure you it has no violent intentions and won't disturb your consumption of Us Magazine." At that point it becomes an educational gawk fest for all the sunburned fat mid westerners on the plane and people feel enriched instead of offended by the experience.

 

[scooter2525]

Good thing there wasnt an armed Air Marshall on board! I dont care what your religion is, standing up and getting "boxes" out of your luggage and strapping them to your body while praying out load is NOT a smart thing to do post 9/11.

What if I prayed over these?

 

[SurferLucas]

As a godless non-practicing atheist I find all religious rituals sophomoric and comical. As a bleeding heart liberal though, I'll defend your right to perform them. I'm also wondering if the FA's asked any of them what was going on, and why one of them didn't inform the FA what was going on? Get out of a city like NY or LA and there are wide swaths of the country that have never met a Jewish person, let alone an Orthodox Jew. I remember that in 5th grade or so we had Hanukkahs as a spelling test word when I lived in Texas. First the kids asked what was that, when it was explained that it was a Jewish holiday, their next question was "What's Jewish?" Even at 11 I was amused and appalled, but I digress.

It seems like if you practice a boutique religion it would be prudent to inform people around you that, "This looks a little goofy, but I assure you it has no violent intentions and won't disturb your consumption of Us Magazine." At that point it becomes an educational gawk fest for all the sunburned fat mid westerners on the plane and people feel enriched instead of offended by the experience.

You should re-read a few post back, as the questioning part had already been covered.

Minuteman had posted something from the Alaska Airlines Facebook page in response to this situation:

- Flight attendants instructed everyone to stay seated with their seatbelts fastened as the aircraft flew through turbulence shortly after takeoff. The three passengers disregarded repeated requests, however, and stood up several times to retrieve objects from their luggage in the overhead bin that the crew had never seen, including small black boxes fastened with what appeared to be black tape. The crew learned after the plane landed that these were tefillin boxes worn during the prayer ritual.
- The men prayed aloud together in a language unfamiliar to the crew while wearing what appeared to be black tape and wires strapped to their forearms and foreheads and wires on their chests. Their actions and behavior made some other travelers and the crew uneasy. The three passengers responded, but provided very little explanation, to a flight attendant’s questions about the tefillin boxes and what they were doing.
-Later in the flight, two of the three passengers visited the lavatories together while the third waited in the aisle and continually looked around the cabin and toward the flight deck door. Flight attendants thought he appeared anxious, as if he were standing guard.

So we've got 3 gentlemen disregarding a Flight Attendants directions to remained seated, making other passengers uneasy (which does constitute a disruption in the cabin), being vague about what they're doing when questioned, and finally having 2 people in the Lav (which is already small) and one blocking the aisle. For me, that right there has raised a few red flags and the final action of being in the Lav with a guard, that's well within the FA's rights to call the Flight Deck and the Captain to place it under Lockdown and alert authorities.

 

[Bigey]

You should re-read a few post back, as the questioning part had already been covered.

Minuteman had posted something from the Alaska Airlines Facebook page in response to this situation:


So we've got 3 gentlemen disregarding a Flight Attendants directions to remained seated, making other passengers uneasy (which does constitute a disruption in the cabin), being vague about what they're doing when questioned, and finally having 2 people in the Lav (which is already small) and one blocking the aisle. For me, that right there has raised a few red flags and the final action of being in the Lav with a guard, that's well within the FA's rights to call the Flight Deck and the Captain to place it under Lockdown and alert authorities.

Im glad an internal review was done. As I was suspecting, there was much more to the story. I stand behind what I said before, the flight crew acted within complete reason. The disobeying part of sitting down woulda been the first straw. The boxes woulda been a questionable second straw, since my guards would already be up since they didnt follow my commands. The final straw would be both of them in the lav with one in the aisle waiting. That's just too many things happening from this group of passengers. You gotta have a little bit of tact when you fly. Checking one of these 'suspicious' boxes wouldnt be enough, but checking all 3 of these boxes and you can actually exclaim 'suspicion.'