AirTran/SWA Seniority Integration Deal

SlumTodd_Millionaire

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Most Hated Member
Well, the details have been released to both pilot group now, so I figure I can post them here for everyone who was asking about it. It's ugly. Really ugly.


The top 1,646 slots go to SWA pilots.
The next 116 AirTran captains are ratio'd with the next 725 SWA pilots.
The next 208 AirTran captains are ratio'd with the next 1351 SWA pilots.
The next 581 AirTran captains are ratio'd with the next 2018 SWA pilots.
The first 142 AirTran FOs are ratio'd with the next 142 SWA pilots.
The rest of the 649 AirTran FOs are stapled to the bottom of the SWA FO list.
The pilots hired at SWA after the merger was announced are next.
The pilots hired at AirTran after the merger was announced are next.
The pilots hired at both carriers after the transaction closed on May 2 are in DOH order at the very bottom.


In short, what that means is that the very first AirTran pilot is number 1,647 on the list. After that, a minority of the AirTran captains are ratio'd in with the SWA captains. The majority of our captains are merged with SWA FOs. A small minority of our FOs are merged in with the bottom of the SWA FO list, and then 80% of our FOs are stapled (myself included). The average loss of relative seniority for us is 22%, with it being as much as 35% for those hardest hit. SWA pilots gain between 6-12% relative seniority.

So, there you have it. The MEC still has to vote on whether to send it out for a membership vote, so it's not final yet. That vote will probably take place in two weeks or so.
 
surreal1221 said:
Ouch.

Ugly.

And then...guess the real question is "fences?"
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10 year fence on Atlanta, but they're shrinking it down to only 850 pilots, so half of our pilots still get bumped out and have to use their system seniority in SWA bases. The 717 is also fenced, so no SWA pilots will be flying that, which saves some of my bidding power until we get rid of them, but the leases start expiring in 2016, and I'm sure they'll get rid of them as the leases come up.
 
Damn...so then...how many of the AirTran Captains bumped to SWA FO seniority levels will end up actually staying in the left seat should they be bumped to a SWA base?

Brutal.

And this is an agreement? Not arbitrated correct? Wonder how much this may play into the integration of ASA/XJT.
 
surreal1221 said:
Damn...so then...how many of the AirTran Captains bumped to SWA FO seniority levels will end up actually staying in the left seat should they be bumped to a SWA base?

Brutal.
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The captains have seat protections. They can't get bumped out of their seats unless SWA reduces the overall number of captains system wide. They'll just be stuck on reserve forever as the SWA FOs senior to them keep upgrading over the next couple of decades.

And this is an agreement? Not arbitrated correct? Wonder how much this may play into the integration of ASA/XJT.
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Yes, this is an agreement. No arbitrator in his right mind would award something so ridiculous. :rolleyes: I doubt it will have any affect on your integration.
 
Thanks Todd. Sorry buddy. FedEx window has opened...no more space shuttle program, so...chances are increasing. ;)

Beverages soon? This time I pay.
 
Turn it down, let it go into arbitration. I can't see how a binding arbitration award could be any worse for the AAI guys than what's offered above.
 
On a wage-basis, is there a ready comparison for the average change in pay to the AirTran pilot group? I.e., "It used to cost $xx million in wages to do their flying for AirTran, now it will cost $yy million for that same group to do their flying for Southwest."

I'm trying to figure out what the selling point for this kind of integration would be (that the post "yy" number would be significantly larger than the prior "xx").
 
Minuteman said:
On a wage-basis, is there a ready comparison for the average change in pay to the AirTran pilot group? I.e., "It used to cost $xx million in wages to do their flying for AirTran, now it will cost $yy million for that same group to do their flying for Southwest."

I'm trying to figure out what the selling point for this kind of integration would be (that the post "yy" number would be significantly larger than the prior "xx").
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Yes, there are significant pay raises involved (although I would argue that that shouldn't have anything to do with seniority integration). My pay raise will be about 35%.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Well, the details have been released to both pilot group now, so I figure I can post them here for everyone who was asking about it. It's ugly. Really ugly.


The top 1,646 slots go to SWA pilots.
The next 116 AirTran captains are ratio'd with the next 725 SWA pilots.
The next 208 AirTran captains are ratio'd with the next 1351 SWA pilots.
The next 581 AirTran captains are ratio'd with the next 2018 SWA pilots.
The first 142 AirTran FOs are ratio'd with the next 142 SWA pilots.
The rest of the 649 AirTran FOs are stapled to the bottom of the SWA FO list.
The pilots hired at SWA after the merger was announced are next.
The pilots hired at AirTran after the merger was announced are next.
The pilots hired at both carriers after the transaction closed on May 2 are in DOH order at the very bottom.


In short, what that means is that the very first AirTran pilot is number 1,647 on the list. After that, a minority of the AirTran captains are ratio'd in with the SWA captains. The majority of our captains are merged with SWA FOs. A small minority of our FOs are merged in with the bottom of the SWA FO list, and then 80% of our FOs are stapled (myself included). The average loss of relative seniority for us is 22%, with it being as much as 35% for those hardest hit. SWA pilots gain between 6-12% relative seniority.

So, there you have it. The MEC still has to vote on whether to send it out for a membership vote, so it's not final yet. That vote will probably take place in two weeks or so.
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Yikes!
Hey Todd, when this was presented to your MEC how long did it take for them to vote on it? It seems to me that the top AAI guys are looking pretty, while if your an FO you basically just got thrown under the bus. How did your MEC think this was fair? Everyone who has seen this thinks it's so out of whack.
 
Screw that. I'd vote hell no, even if I was at southwest. They are very similar companies when it comes to career expectations, there should not be this much of a difference.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Screw that. I'd vote hell no, even if I was at southwest. They are very similar companies when it comes to career expectations, there should not be this much of a difference.
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I agree, this is a crap sandwich. Both fly short-medium haul domestic; we're not talking about displacing senior 777 crews. Vote this junk down.
 
Soul Brotha' said:
Yikes!
Hey Todd, when this was presented to your MEC how long did it take for them to vote on it? It seems to me that the top AAI guys are looking pretty, while if your an FO you basically just got thrown under the bus. How did your MEC think this was fair? Everyone who has seen this thinks it's so out of whack.
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It hasn't been voted on by the MEC yet. Only the Merger Committee has agreed to it. The MEC still has to make a decision. That will probably happen in a week or so.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It hasn't been voted on by the MEC yet. Only the Merger Committee has agreed to it. The MEC still has to make a decision. That will probably happen in a week or so.
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If I was a tranny I'd be pretty livid that my side of the merger committe though this was even worth a vote. I firmly believe that in a merger you have to do what is fair for the whole group. If any one group feels like they won/lost things are going to be fugly. There shouldn't be an "us vs. them@ mentality, but rather "ok, our respective management groups put us in this position, let's get together and get as much as we can. I guarantee you that there are tons of airtran f/o's that feel pretty alienated by their pilot group right now. That's not going to lead to the continuation of the happy southwest culture.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
That's not going to lead to the continuation of the happy southwest culture.
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My observation as an outsider is that happy culture started disappearing at about the 400th aircraft and was killed-dead in the wake of the 2008 FAA fines for crack inspection.
 
MikeD said:
For the stapled FOs, this increases upgrade time to what......15 years or so?
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Hah! If only. No, my upgrade is currently projected for the year 2032. I've already been at AirTran for over four years. So, doing the math, I'll have a 25 year upgrade from the day I was hired. Our very first FO on the list has a projected upgrade for the year 2024. Without the merger, he would have been a captain late last year. Now he gets to wait another 13 years. Fair and equitable? I report, you decide. ;)
 
One has to wonder why the merger/negotiating committee even brought this deal to the MEC. Obviously (well, nothing is obvious with arbitration but...) arbitration is going to lead to better results so why even bother with this?

As was brought up before, yes, prior to the merger your career pay exceptions were very different, but I would argue that career expectations as far as type of aircraft flown and projected upgrade were better at AirTran than they were at Southwest. This SLI does not reflect that in the slightest.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Hah! If only. No, my upgrade is currently projected for the year 2032. I've already been at AirTran for over four years. So, doing the math, I'll have a 25 year upgrade from the day I was hired. Our very first FO on the list has a projected upgrade for the year 2024. Without the merger, he would have been a captain late last year. Now he gets to wait another 13 years. Fair and equitable? I report, you decide. ;)
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No, not fair at all.
 
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