Airspace reclassification--KLGB

RICHARD5

Well-Known Member
FAA meeting to solicit comments about changing LGB from Class D to Class C.

Points to consider:

-larger surface area
-increased restrictions of airspace
-reduction of services to non Part 121 aircraft during peak hours
-probability in significant change in pilot practice areas and requiring new locations
-additional burden placed on Socal APP/DEP
-unknown financial burden placed on existing flight schools within 20 nm of LGB

Meeting is scheduled for October 25th, 6 PM at the Holiday Inn, 2640 Lakewood Blvd (Long Beach Airport)
 
I don't know enough about it to comment, but the few times I have flown in there, I have been quite astounded at the level of multiple runway flight ops they have conducted. Aside from the fact that a couple errant cessnas almost got me to the face on final, they seem to do a very good job of managing what must be a nightmare of activity.
 
Agreed. You gotta bring your A-game. Cuz Todd will rip ur a$$ to shreds if you dont! Don't forget to say "intersection" after saying the taxiway you want to take off from on 25L. Make sure you enter on the 45!!! Not the 35!!!
 
the controllers there are really good! even that jerk one.

it surprises me how some towers can't even get you in the pattern without a 360 because a jet is 5 miles out and they only have 1 runway.
i'm looking at you camarillo!
 
the controllers there are really good! even that jerk one.

it surprises me how some towers can't even get you in the pattern without a 360 because a jet is 5 miles out and they only have 1 runway.
i'm looking at you camarillo!

the 360 is worth it if you're flying in to eat at the cafe!
 
the controllers there are really good! even that jerk one.

it surprises me how some towers can't even get you in the pattern without a 360 because a jet is 5 miles out and they only have 1 runway.

haha no kidding. God forbid they give the jet a 15 deg check turn in VMC to allow the cessna an extra 15 seconds to get on deck and make the first exit after his 10 ft rollout :)
 
I'm a proponent of Class C for LGB. Doesn't bother me one bit.

the controllers there are really good! even that jerk one.

it surprises me how some towers can't even get you in the pattern without a 360 because a jet is 5 miles out and they only have 1 runway.
i'm looking at you camarillo!

Having grown up flying in and around CMA and having also spent LOTS of time with their ATCT folks, I can definitely say that the pilots are the problem there. If they're über-conservative about spacing it's because someone went out and buggered it up one too many times. It's a training tower, too, and all the handoffs and such are done manually since Mugu TRACON is a military facility that doesn't necessarily play with the civil equipment. If I were running the CMA-OXR-NTD area, it'd be Class C to the surface around all three airports with all the giddleysockets that the other terminals in SoCal have...but they didn't let me make that decision.

Cooperate and graduate. And eat your tri-tip and smile.

BTW, a parallel runway IS in the airport's long term plan. Doesn't mean it'll happen anytime soon...
 
FAA meeting to solicit comments about changing LGB from Class D to Class C.

Points to consider:

-larger surface area
-increased restrictions of airspace
-reduction of services to non Part 121 aircraft during peak hours
-probability in significant change in pilot practice areas and requiring new locations
-additional burden placed on Socal APP/DEP
-unknown financial burden placed on existing flight schools within 20 nm of LGB

Meeting is scheduled for October 25th, 6 PM at the Holiday Inn, 2640 Lakewood Blvd (Long Beach Airport)

They are trying it AGAIN! Sheesh. They just don't give up. I wonder if it's because Todd wants a raise or something?
 
FAA meeting to solicit comments about changing LGB from Class D to Class C.

Points to consider:

-larger surface area
-increased restrictions of airspace
-reduction of services to non Part 121 aircraft during peak hours
-probability in significant change in pilot practice areas and requiring new locations
-additional burden placed on Socal APP/DEP
-unknown financial burden placed on existing flight schools within 20 nm of LGB

Meeting is scheduled for October 25th, 6 PM at the Holiday Inn, 2640 Lakewood Blvd (Long Beach Airport)

Who cares as to point 1, SLI LGB and TOA are already on top of each other.
2, uh, ya
3, how? Does GA not know how to use a radio and transponder?
4, if they plan it right, it shouldn't effect any of the practice/acro areas just south or east of it.
5, socal already controls that airspace

These are terrible points one way or another.

I've sat on top of that airport for hours day after day, and does socal do an excellent job in the area. It is quite busy, and if they just kept the edge of the C north of the shore, it shouldn't really effect training or routes through the LA basin while talking to no one. I really don't see how this is a bad thing. If someone has something it will actually effect, I'd be interested in hearing it... aside from now having to use radios and transpoders and such.
 
I thought Camarillo WAS a parallel runway airport? You know... the ultralight runway. ;)

(Edit: Looks like it's about 1700x10. Plenty of room!!!)
26L-8R is supposed to be something like 3200x75 or so. Think "Van Nuys Left Runway." The idea is to keep us poor (former) piston drivers out of the way.
 
Ooooo called him out by name. Everybody I know that flys is the area has a "TODD" story.

What's yours?


LOL! I'd prefer to not smear him all over the internetz. But most people know him by name for a reason. He can be difficult to deal with.
 
If anything its a positive. It'll force all those pilots from overseas who are training there learn better radio communication. Alot of them do a decent job, but jeesh some of them just don't communicate well. Situational awareness might improve in forcing pilots to be aware of where they are and what they are doing(although they already should be). Especially in light of the accidents they've had there in the past.
 
I always would laugh when controllers at a class C area such as KABQ and KELP would start to melt down when they had more than five aircraft at once. KABQ even started putting a limit on the number of practice approaches one could do. Then I would take a client on a cross country to a "sleepy" class D such as KLGB. No amount of ground review on the procedures and what to expect seemed to prepare a pilot for the controlled chaos the first time going in there. As others have said, very competent controllers there.
 
I always would laugh when controllers at a class C area such as KABQ and KELP would start to melt down when they had more than five aircraft at once. KABQ even started putting a limit on the number of practice approaches one could do. Then I would take a client on a cross country to a "sleepy" class D such as KLGB. No amount of ground review on the procedures and what to expect seemed to prepare a pilot for the controlled chaos the first time going in there. As others have said, very competent controllers there.

Like wanting to air taxi up RW35 at ABQ and cross RW 8-26, and get held in either a hover or circle south of 8-26 due to air carrier traffic on final for 8........like 3 mile final. Not even short final or anything. It'll take me about 5 seconds to cross and be clear!
 
Like wanting to air taxi up RW35 at ABQ and cross RW 8-26, and get held in either a hover or circle south of 8-26 due to air carrier traffic on final for 8........like 3 mile final. Not even short final or anything. It'll take me about 5 seconds to cross and be clear!

Exactly. Sometimes at ABQ I felt I was back at OKBK waiting 10 minutes for someone on a 30 mile final.:banghead:
Then you get to KLGB... numerous helicopters using south traffic. Three 172s lined up on 34R, we're landing on 34L, someone else getting ready to depart 30, several airplanes in the pattern. It was a thing of beauty. My clients are normally peeing in their pants and too dumbfounded to pilot the airplanes.
 
I always would laugh when controllers at a class C area such as KABQ and KELP would start to melt down when they had more than five aircraft at once

I can't comment on ABQ, but I can tell you that at ELP there are only four controllers left with over twenty years of experience, two more who are maybe approaching fifteen years (but probably are closer to ten), two more with five years experience, and practically everyone else with three years or less. On top of that, there are only thirteen fully certified controllers trying to train a dozen developmentals (actually less, because many of those fully certified controllers don't have enough time to be trainers). The experience level is less now than it was immediately following the strike in '81, the training received coming out of the Oklahoma City Academy is nowhere near what it was even a decade ago, morale is in the tank, the trainers are burned out, and things are as bleak as I've ever seen in over thirty-four years in this business.

You can thank Marion Blakey if service is falling off, as this is all a direct result of her tenure and the mad rush of experienced controllers hitting the doors (including me only one month following eligibility in 2009) to get off a sinking ship. I don't expect any significant improvement for up to a decade, from what I'm seeing, and the huge increase in near misses nationwide pretty much backs up just how bad things have gotten since the White Book was imposed on the controller workforce five years ago last month.

And because controllers retire at about the 25-year mark, and since Administrator Blakey's policies actually aggravated an already existing controller shortage when she should have been doing everything she could to smooth out the first "PATCO echo," you can expect the same degradation in service in ANOTHER twenty-five years because she all but ensured yet ANOTHER "PATCO echo" will hit again then.

Just my 2¢. And, yes, it saddens me because when I got to ELP we were working four times the traffic (my highest hourly count on local once hit 120 operations way back then) with a heck of a lot more efficiency and vastly better service.
 
I forgot to add into the mix that KELP is not authorized to use Line-Up-And-Wait (the old Position-And-Hold) procedures. That takes away a lot of options to the controller.
 
I forgot to add into the mix that KELP is not authorized to use Line-Up-And-Wait (the old Position-And-Hold) procedures. That takes away a lot of options to the controller.
KCMA neither. "Insufficient staffing."
 
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