Airnet Questions / My ranting too!

dcramer16

dcramer16

Well-Known Member
I'll get to my airnet questions in a minute, please excuse me while I rant.

Well....I just started a job going from 91 to 135. It pays GREAT, easy route, and flying a queen air. Only problem is the boss is a bit tempermental. Lots of cussing, yelling, breaking the regs....Just not really a position I want to see myself in. But did I mention the GREAT pay! So I think I am going to quit. Here's what really set me off...

I'm not going to name names or anything like that, but where I currently am at, there is no formal training program. Example of a training session, There is no intercom system in the plane. I don't know a damn thing about a queen air. I've been flying a C172 for the last year. Big difference. So, no intercom system in the plane, so we kinda communicate with hand gestures. Second day on the job, he motions for me to land the plane at night, I might mention I haven't landed at night in over a year, and this was the very first right seat landing I've ever done. I also know nothing about the queen air, we have no checklist in the plane (hmmm?), and I had only seen him do 3 landings (Two the day before, and one that morning). Long story short, it was a crappy landing, probably by far the worst landing I have ever had, not dangerous, just crappy. We go to the office, after we are done putting the plane away. He says, direct quote, "What the ###### is wrong with you that you can't land a F***ing airplane." I explained to him that I understood it was a bad landing, but my first one on the right side, first night landing in a while, and I know nothing about the plane. I then said that I haven't had anything about the plane explained to me yet. He said, and I quote, "What the ###### is there to explain, monkee see monkee do. You've been watching me land this f***ing airplane, haven't you been paying attention." Remember, no intercom system in the plane, so even if he wanted to, he wouldn't be able to explain anything to me in the airplane. I then told him that this was the first time I have ever heard in a training environment, let alone one in the aviation field that I don't need to have anything explained, just do what I do. He then told me "You aren't going to sit next to an airline captain on the first day and have him start training you from scratch." I told him no, I don't suppose an airline captain would train someone from scratch, and that's why the airlines put you in ground school for a month or two before you get to fly with the captain. So he said and here is another direct quote "Ok, well if I need to f***ing baby you, and hold your hand, I'll put in an intercom box." So we're walking out the door, and he turns around and says, again, another direct quote verbatim "You know, I pay pretty good, but that's because usually I get 5000 - 6000 hour pilots in here, not dumb ######S like you." then walks off.

I have a family to support, bills to pay, blah blah blah. So it's a great job in that respect, but only 3 days into it, I'm going through red flags left and right. Another example. The boss flew us westbound on a vfr flight plan, at 7000ft, in IMC! just because he was late that morning and we had a better tail wind at that altitude. RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE!

I'm not the best pilot knowledge wise, but I try damn hard, and can fly a plane like no other (I didn't say anything about landing it...lol). Mainly the reason I took this job, is the pay is GREAT(LOL) and the boss said, "Hey, I can see you need some work, don't worry about it, we'll get you trained..." So I thought "Hey, here's a guy who everyone says is a dick to work for, I can see he's a dick to work for, but he's going to take time to work with me, and get me trained to be a great professional pilot."

Unfortunatly I can't see myself becoming a professional pilot under his training. Of course it's my fault in the first place, everyone told me this guy was an ass to every pilot that came his way...

So.....

One of the pilots I work with on my weekend flying job (part 91) went to Airnet for training and just wasn't ready for it, so they asked him to leave, but be sure to come back when he was better prepaired. All he can talk about is Airnet, and now he's got me onto it. ALL HE CAN TALK ABOUT IS AIRNET, AND WHAT A GREAT COMPANY IT IS. HE IS CONSTANLY TELLING ME WHAT A GREAT COMPANY IT IS. From what I read on the forums it's a great company, the training program is one of the best out there, and 99.9% of the pilots their have a great attitude.

First, I've been doing Part 91 vfr for the last year. So I am a bit behind IFR. I've been studying my ass off mainly because I was going to start this new job. Only problem is I have a hell of a time learning out of a book, it's a lot easier for me to get in the sim, do it, and say "Oh yeah, now I remember." But I'm working on it. My buddy told me not to worry about that. He said at the interview they aren't necessarily looking for a lot of book smarts, but someone with a great attitude that they know they can train. What do you think?

Next, like I said, I have family, bills, blah blah blah. I have 1750TT so I was told I would probably go straight to a prop capt. So, what is the pay like. If I was single I wouldn't really give a rip, but I don't have that luxury...lol I need to know if I can afford to have a family, and work for Airnet...

What are the schedules like. Of course, I would love to have day flights and be at home with the fam, but also realize that this isn't always possible, and I can accept that. I'll do what I need to do.

Basically, if the pay is good, and schedules "do-able" then that's good enough for me.

Plain and simple, I have a great attitude, I want to be the best possible pilot I can every be, and have been told that Airnet is the place to go, to become the best possible pilot I can be. I want to learn to be a great IFR pilot, I don't just want to be a commercial pilot, I want to be a commercial professional pilot, big difference. I'm not going to get that where I am, and as much as I love my family, as much as this current job will provide me with the paycheck to take really good care of my family, as much as this job allows me to spend lots of time with my family, it's not the road to take to become a "professional" pilot. So, I already know I need to go to Airnet to become a great pilot, I just need to know how this will affect my family and my budget. Any imput would be greatly appriciated. You Airnet guys, from all the postings I have read on JC, seem like top notch, professional guys with great attitudes. I hope to be seeing you soon!
 
Well I don't post all that often, but this bothers me pretty good. To sum my thoughts up to begin with, get out now! Don't pass go and don't collect your $200. Just leave.

I don't have a great deal of knowledge about Airnet, however there seem to be more than a few people here who could give you plenty of detail about them and their experiences. I'm also quite sure that a simple use of the search feature would bring plenty of good info about them. A solid place to find the financial side of things would be here.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/airnet.html

Hope this helps.
 
I'm currently in training right now at airnet and have nothing bad to say about the company. The training is top notch and all of the pilots that I have talked to have all been great people. Of all of the places that I have ever worked I would I like the attitude the best here. Pay can be a little confusing to explain. There are a couple day runs that I am aware of in Birmingham.

I've met a couple of people like to one you described and my only advice is to get out as soon as possible before somthing happens (it prop will), and then your boss will prob turn around and blame it on you.
 
Mr. Taylor said it best when he responded to a thread you posted last summer.
Doug Taylor said:
You're not a match for the website. The "waa waa I don't like something" gets old and you've brought nothing to the table to offer anyone else.


Do you think I started this website to serve as a place where you can come bitch and moan incessantly and serve no purpose?

-->Nope<--

What have you brought to the table?

Nada.

Career advice: "Spend less time complaining and more time doing something about it".

Take a week off from the site and reflect on that.
Click to expand...

Looks like you haven't taken the big guy's advice. No situation is ideal, but you have to swim in the water around you. It is always what YOU make it. Instead of making this post you could have been downloading/purchasing checklists and manuals for the Queen air from the web that your employer does not have. The Queen air is an awesome plane by the way, consider yourself lucky. When you start thinking that everybody else has a problem you need to look a little closer to home. If you have never had, and learned how to deal with, a boss like the one you have now then join the Marines, that will thicken the skin and cure your hyper sensitivity.
No offense, but welcome to the real world.
 
mogley68 said:
I'm currently in training right now at airnet and have nothing bad to say about the company.
Click to expand...

One thing I have noticed is nobody is complaining about airnet. With any company you'll usually have at least someone who is really negative. I haven't seen one really negative post about airnet.


HMS Calpe, ha ha, I guess I should just shut up and put up with someone with a bad attitude fly me imc, on a vfr flight plan, using the wrong altititude because "that's the way the real world is". Sounds to me that you might be part of the problem. I'm not perfect myself, and do my share of complaining, but that's mainly because I look for great opportunities, and every once in a while (especially in aviation), you get a situation that is not only less that ideal, but downright dangerous. I'm not always complaining.

First, my flight school, I have never had anything bad to say where I trained. There were plenty of things I didn't like, or that weren't perfect, but I never complained, because there was nothing downright dangerous going on. Then I went to do some time-building at another flight school. Had plenty of problems there, and I complained a lot about that. Got my part 91 job, worked there for almost a year, have nothing at all to complain about. Then got this job, yeah, I'm complaining. So I don't whine and moan about every situation I'm in.

What have you brought to the table with your 5 posts? I have been pretty quiet on JC for a long time. That's because I've been working my 91 job that was perfect. I talked to many people on JC who had questions about this job, AND EVEN GOT A FELLOW JC'er A JOB WITH THAT COMPANY (again, what have you brought to the table). Many others pm'd me and I pointed them to several other jobs like mine.

So I'm glad you have thick skin, and don't speak out when you see a major problem. Maybe it's possible you don't have a big enough backbone to speak out, and just sit there and take it. Maybe that's not true at all, but if it is, and as I've already said, you might be part of the problem.
 
Dunno about your situation, really.

But I can tell you one thing is certain, and it doesn't matter if you're a pilot, IT geek, burger flipper or coat checker.

No job is worth your dignity.

I'll say it again. No job is worth your dignity.

If this man is as abusive and dangerous as you say, then get out. Period.

If he's not, and you're hemming and hawing because you've painted an overly evil picture in the quest to rant/vent, then we can't help you.
 
From the sound of it, you are better off leaving. First of all, if this is a 135 gig you should have gone through a formal training program, and passed a checkride. Are you flying as PIC or SIC? I guess I'm just kind of lost on your whole position here, seems like your just in the right seat going along for the ride??
 
vheissu said:
From the sound of it, you are better off leaving. First of all, if this is a 135 gig you should have gone through a formal training program, and passed a checkride. Are you flying as PIC or SIC? I guess I'm just kind of lost on your whole position here, seems like your just in the right seat going along for the ride??
Click to expand...

Yeah, a formal training program would be good. I'm not flying SIC, I'm logging PIC for the times that I am at the controls.

I have talked to him a couple of times about his methods. I went in this morning and told him I wasn't the guy for the job, that I wouldn't be flying with him. When he asked why, I told him monkey see monkey do just doesn't work for me. Maybe that works when you're training someone to drive a fork lift, or if you've got a 5000 hour pilot that you only have to point out a few things too, then that method might work. I told him I appreciated the opportunity, and for him giving me a chance, told him to get himself a 5000 hour pilot, and walked out. Shortly after that he came out after me and told me he had been thinking about it too, and that he has been spoiled the last 10+ years because all he's had is 5-6K part 135 pilots and that he wasn't used to training someone from scratch. He said things were going to change, he's going to get an intercom box put in, and try and be more patient. So I flew with him today.

First trip actually went pretty good. He was explaining things, and walking me though everything. Second trip he started getting a bit impatient. But all in all it was a pretty good day. I feel that if someone is willing to work with you, then quiting your job and moving on isn't the best solution. He did pretty good working with me today, and I guess we'll take it 1 day at a time. He did almost kinda a little bit come close to an appology this morning, and with what everyone has told me about him, that's not doing too bad!
 
First off, he's NOT going to change. There is a difference between difficult people and people like this guy. He can't find anyone else because he's not a professional in any sense of the term and from what you say, downright dangerous. I also find it hard to believe that he's been flying around with 5-6k hour pilots with his level of professionalism, especially in a Queen Air...unless there are other planes you have not mentioned.

Second, if he did indeed fly VFR in IMC, you need to get on the horn to the FAA and report it, especially if this is a 135 operation. Not that they'll do anything, but I personally would feel obligated to do so.

Third, you need to get out of there asap. I do realize that you have a family to support, but working at The Home Depot and being able to barely make it would be better than getting yourself killed. Why did you leave your Part 91 job if it was "perfect" as you called it in another post?

I don't know your "history" on this website, nor do I really care. But I do care about the fact that you seem to be in a not so good situation and would be better off someplace else. Are you in either Minnesota or South Florida?

Be Safe.
 
JDE said:
First off, he's NOT going to change. There is a difference between difficult people and people like this guy. He can't find anyone else because he's not a professional in any sense of the term and from what you say, downright dangerous. I also find it hard to believe that he's been flying around with 5-6k hour pilots with his level of professionalism, especially in a Queen Air...unless there are other planes you have not mentioned.

Second, if he did indeed fly VFR in IMC, you need to get on the horn to the FAA and report it, especially if this is a 135 operation. Not that they'll do anything, but I personally would feel obligated to do so.

Third, you need to get out of there asap. I do realize that you have a family to support, but working at The Home Depot and being able to barely make it would be better than getting yourself killed. Why did you leave your Part 91 job if it was "perfect" as you called it in another post?

I don't know your "history" on this website, nor do I really care. But I do care about the fact that you seem to be in a not so good situation and would be better off someplace else. Are you in either Minnesota or South Florida?

Be Safe.
Click to expand...

Well, I agree that that's why he hasn't had help in a very long time. I do take full responsibility, completely for the situation I am in. I was warned by many people what a jerk (and not in that kind of word) he can be. I thought, well, here's a guy who's gonna pay me about 60k, the schedule is absolutely perfect, I can put up with it. He's a lot like my dad, over worked, understaffed, and stressed to the max, and people like them deal with the stress by yelling etc, and crap rolls down hill. I worked with my dad for years and was able to deal with it, and so when everyone warned me I brushed it off and figured I could handle it. Well....I can't really handle it in an airplane. So yeah, I take full responsibility, I had plenty of warnings.

As far as other planes I have not mentioned...There are 5 other queen airs, but they are all broke down. The schedule that is flown was keeping him away Mon-Fri from 8am - 8pm. So he said that's how he fell behind on his maintenance, all he has time for on the weekends is keeping the one going. So he said once he gets me trained he will be back at the hanger everyday and will be able to get caught up on everything, and hire some more pilots.

I left my Part 91 job because I was going from 30K-60K. I got greedy, again I'll freely admit to that. I'm in TX. I do appreciate the fact that you think I should get out of here. Belive me I have plenty of pilots here telling me the same thing. And all of you are probably right. Like I said, I had a couple other talks with him about how he's handling things, and none of them took effect, until I told him I was going to walk out today. Then I could see that he made a decent effort to do a bit better. If I can ever get through this training I'll be making a great income, plenty of free time, and I won't have to deal with him much. Mainly it will be a phone call at 8am let him know I'm ready and all is ok, call him when I land at 9am, let him know I made it, go to the company apartment, watch cable/study/sleep/whatever, till 6pm, call him and let him know I'm ready to takeoff, call him at 7pm and let him know I got back ok. Other than that I won't have to deal with him much. Once I get trained and out on my own I can handle the yelling, and crap rolling downhill. I did that with my dad for years, it's when it's taking place in the airplane that I can't handle it. So I'll give him a chance, after all he's taking a chance hiring a (and I quote) "dumb **** pilot" into a high paying job meant for 5000hr pilots... We'll see how it goes.
 
This company sounds like the place 'red flags' were first made. If you won't listen to your friends and peers, you're certainly not going to listen to some faceless person on the internet. I don't see how flying a Queen Air is a job for a pilot with 5000 hours either.

This thread might just be flaming...
 
RUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNN

To your local FSDO and report them, then turn in your resignation letter and hit the road. I can only imagine what kind of MX shortcuts this outfit would take.
 
mojo6911 said:
RUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNN

To your local FSDO and report them, then turn in your resignation letter and hit the road. I can only imagine what kind of MX shortcuts this outfit would take.
Click to expand...

I quit today. When doing touch and goes today we had a disagreement wether there was enough runway to takeoff again. My landing was a little long and the runway a little short. So he tried advancing the throttles on me, I closed them and he punched me in the leg. I told him at that time we were going to go park the plane immediately, he told me no we weren't, that we were going to taxi back and takeoff, I told him no, he cussed some more, and we taxied back. I got out of the plane and quit. I'm much to exhausted to go into anymore detail tonight. I'm just glad it's over.

By the way, I have an interview with Airnet on Jan 31. I'm really looking forward to it. Now I have plenty of time to study and get ready for it!
 
dcramer16 said:
I quit today. When doing touch and goes today we had a disagreement wether there was enough runway to takeoff again. My landing was a little long and the runway a little short. So he tried advancing the throttles on me, I closed them and he punched me in the leg. I told him at that time we were going to go park the plane immediately, he told me no we weren't, that we were going to taxi back and takeoff, I told him no, he cussed some more, and we taxied back. I got out of the plane and quit. I'm much to exhausted to go into anymore detail tonight. I'm just glad it's over.

By the way, I have an interview with Airnet on Jan 31. I'm really looking forward to it. Now I have plenty of time to study and get ready for it!
Click to expand...

Any bruises from the punch? If so, I would not only call the police for assault, but I would get an attorney to sue him. On top of that, I would contact the FSDO about this operation. Send a letter to them, or drop one off in person. In writing is always better.
 
mojo6911 said:
Any bruises from the punch? If so, I would not only call the police for assault, but I would get an attorney to sue him. On top of that, I would contact the FSDO about this operation. Send a letter to them, or drop one off in person. In writing is always better.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about reporting it. There is no bruise. It was just hard enough to get my attention and really tick me off. I was talking with a couple local pilots today, and they said he's been doing the same thing for the last 20 something years. The Faa has been after him for just about as long. A couple years ago he did a belly up landing with his two sons on board. 2 seats, and 3 people on board, big no no. He refuses to do TBO's on his engines at 1200hrs. He won't do them until around 2000hrs. I don't know much about the mechanical end but I heard this is also a big no no. The FAA's been on him about that too. The two "old timers" I talked to today are good friends and wouldn't bs me. They said the FAA has a rap sheet on him that goes on and on, and me creating a crap storm over what he did is nothing compared to what the FAA has on him already. So there advise was to keep quiet, keep my name clean, don't get mixed up in a bunch of bureocratic (sp?) crap that won't do me any good. The said I got off good compared to some pilots that go out there. One never made it back, as I understand it. So the FAA has plenty of digs on this guy without me filing reports too.
 
dcramer16 said:
I was thinking about reporting it. There is no bruise. It was just hard enough to get my attention and really tick me off. I was talking with a couple local pilots today, and they said he's been doing the same thing for the last 20 something years. The Faa has been after him for just about as long. A couple years ago he did a belly up landing with his two sons on board. 2 seats, and 3 people on board, big no no. He refuses to do TBO's on his engines at 1200hrs. He won't do them until around 2000hrs. I don't know much about the mechanical end but I heard this is also a big no no. The FAA's been on him about that too. The two "old timers" I talked to today are good friends and wouldn't bs me. They said the FAA has a rap sheet on him that goes on and on, and me creating a crap storm over what he did is nothing compared to what the FAA has on him already. So there advise was to keep quiet, keep my name clean, don't get mixed up in a bunch of bureocratic (sp?) crap that won't do me any good. The said I got off good compared to some pilots that go out there. One never made it back, as I understand it. So the FAA has plenty of digs on this guy without me filing reports too.
Click to expand...

And he still has a 135 certificate?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top