Airline Bankruptcy Article - VERY IMPORTANT READ
- Thread starter Polar742
- Start date
Anyone living paycheck to paycheck making over $60K has a problem living within there means.
On another note, from what you can see and do the math from APC AA pilots were not the highest, so when management says reduce labor cost to be in line with their peers who are they comparing with, USAir?
On another note, from what you can see and do the math from APC AA pilots were not the highest, so when management says reduce labor cost to be in line with their peers who are they comparing with, USAir?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You can't just look at the pay rates. The problem is the total block-hour cost per pilot. Because of their A-fund pension and many work rules, the AMR pilots make a significant amount more than most other pilot groups. In fact, pretty much everyone except SWA and Alaska. The big thing that management will want is to get rid of the pension plan, but they won't stop there.
Another angle when it comes to comparing incomes is the mistake that we make by presuming that everyone has OUR particular life circumstances.
When I was making $16K at Skyway, I was able to pay for my rent-controlled apartment, put gas in the car, food in the fridge and occasional trips down to Water Street for Leinekugels and Real Chili.
So when I looked at people complaining at the starting salary at another airline "only" being $50,000, algebraically, I made the mistake of thinking that I would have an extra $34,000 in my pocket at the end of the year and what kind of idiots are they to complain about making $34,000 more than I am! How can THEY be broke when I'm making ends meet at $16,000? What are THEY doing wrong?
Well, nothing. We all have dissimilar circumstances and needs. Some people are blessed with healthy children, others have children with health challenges. Some folks have Porsches, others have their original Honda CVCC's. It just really all depends.
Entrepreneur? I hope you become a trillionaire.
Harvard B-school grad that becomes an airline CEO, slashes jobs, outsources and doesn't do anything to actually build, modernize or grow an airline, I don't see why you should earn a dime more than your captains.
Fred Smith? You go, boy! You had an idea, grew it, perfected it. Make it rain!
Leo Mullin? Good lord, my cat, while leaving a steaming coil in the catbox had better leadership skills and business acumen. Far FAR overpaid and did more to destroy than build success.
When I was making $16K at Skyway, I was able to pay for my rent-controlled apartment, put gas in the car, food in the fridge and occasional trips down to Water Street for Leinekugels and Real Chili.
So when I looked at people complaining at the starting salary at another airline "only" being $50,000, algebraically, I made the mistake of thinking that I would have an extra $34,000 in my pocket at the end of the year and what kind of idiots are they to complain about making $34,000 more than I am! How can THEY be broke when I'm making ends meet at $16,000? What are THEY doing wrong?
Well, nothing. We all have dissimilar circumstances and needs. Some people are blessed with healthy children, others have children with health challenges. Some folks have Porsches, others have their original Honda CVCC's. It just really all depends.
Entrepreneur? I hope you become a trillionaire.
Harvard B-school grad that becomes an airline CEO, slashes jobs, outsources and doesn't do anything to actually build, modernize or grow an airline, I don't see why you should earn a dime more than your captains.
Fred Smith? You go, boy! You had an idea, grew it, perfected it. Make it rain!
Leo Mullin? Good lord, my cat, while leaving a steaming coil in the catbox had better leadership skills and business acumen. Far FAR overpaid and did more to destroy than build success.
ProudPilot
Aeronautics Geek
I'm 5 years older than Whale Boy and I still wouldn't have chosen a different career track at all.
I think the whole bankruptcy shenanigans isn't as much a function of the airline business, just a continued dismantling of the American middle class. But that's political and well, politics are for people that don't have anything better to do.
Dislike Doug.
Politics are what we do to govern ourselves as a whole. The problem is when you get big, corruption expands. Absolute power absolutely corrupts. I agree that politics have changed to where they are very difficult to deal with, but we need them. I enjoy my roads, fire departments, and police to monitor my neighbors trying to burn my house down and steal my stuff. I'm rather glad that I get angry over stupid spending and lack of empathy. While I could be mad at lack of sewers and firefighters that demand cash before putting out that house fire.
If you think you have earned a pension or are dissatisfied with your job, changing jobs is one alley. Supporting your coworkers and fighting for what you think is right is a path that many more of us should take. I agree that as a whole we are overemphasized with finance and should build more and service more. Just saying 'oh well' only gets you what others are willing to toss at you. The apathetic stance we take as a pilot group is just, disheartening. You can't do it all by yourself but you can help.
ProudPilot
Aeronautics Geek
The only true value I can see is how much we, as humans, can change the world in a lifespan. For better or for worse we can build and create. We can help a corn seed grow into a patch or a field with our own hands and then transport it to many rather than let it rot. That's value. Everything else is just, smoke and mirrors.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Having children and buying Porsches are not "circumstances," they are choices. If you can't afford the possibility of a kid with health problems, then don't have kids. If you can't afford a luxury car, then buy a used Civic.
Having a child is a typical part of life, which happens for any amount of reasons, like cancer, heart attacks, buying a house, and hopefully retiring. Things control it based on your life choices, but it still not all that controllable at times.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Absolutely ridiculous. You compare buying a house and having a kid to getting cancer? Seriously? Unless you're referring to cancer that happens as a result of a lifetime of smoking or chewing tobacco, then these things are not comparable.
Having a kid is entirely a choice (unless a woman is raped, of course). Buying a house is a choice. These are not thing that happen "for any amount of reasons." They happen because you decide for them to happen. If you can't afford them, then don't decide to have them. When I was a regional FO, I bought a Hyundai Accent and I had a $600/mo mortgage, because it's all that I could afford on my salary. Now I can afford a lot more, so I have a bigger mortgage and a nicer car. If I took a pay cut, I would get rid of the nicer car and buy a used car. That's called being responsible with your money instead of leveraging to the hilt and claiming that you're in a hole because of "life circumstances."
Sorry, but I'm tired of people not taking responsibility for their bad financial situations.
I never know how to fit in. I can afford a luxury car but bought a used Civic. Weird.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
I've got three, and I make over $100k.
But the only way to make the real money in the world is to screw people, inherit it, start your own business and get REALLY lucky or have a talent or insight that's 2-3 standard deviations outside the norm, but still lets you relate to people.
Everything else, and I mean everything, is working for the man.
Richman
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Meh, kind of a grey area. I agree with you when it comes to those people that are like "god, we are so broke" and then pop out two kids. But a loving couple who just happens to get pregnent (despite honest attempts not to) is something else entirely. Not everything is as black and white as everybody would like it to be.
yep man, technology fails, and when it does, many dont kill......now dont hold that on a regional FO whose company throws him under the bus.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Technology does fail, but very, very rarely. Usually it's carelessness, not a "technology" failure, or a couple who can't afford it deciding to have a kid anyway.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Me too. Ever since Bill Cosby's son got shot cause he was driving a fancy car it's just reinforced in me that it's dumb to be flashy. I'm about as non-flashy as they come. I guess it's to each his own. The kid I mentor has a nicer car than me. I just shake my head. Maybe I'm a loser but I just don't see the sense in it.
Do not doubt this so much man, it might just happen to you! Then you prol will change that song you sing too!
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
If you do it because you want to be seen in it, its probably the wrong reason. But if you do it because you enjoy driving that car, then maybe its not so bad.
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
Would you also recommend selling the kids in the event of a pay cut?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, I would suggest not having kids in the first place unless you could still afford them after taking a big pay cut. Having kids is a huge responsibility, and people should stop jumping in head first without considering the financial implications. Studies show that it takes roughly $250,000 on average to raise a child from birth until they leave home. Don't assume such a significant financial commitment unless you are sure you'll be able to handle it, even if things go sour at work.