Airbus Safety Officer on Reliance on Automation

Derg said:
That's cool. My only interest is bridging the gap between what people think the Airbus design and control philosophy is and what it actually is.

No desire to convince anyone of anything because it wouldn't be the most efficient use of time.
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People are listening.

I've historically been very anti-Airbus. I'm not quite ready to let that go just yet, but I'm listening.

-Fox
 
Acrofox said:
People are listening.

I've historically been very anti-Airbus. I'm not quite ready to let that go just yet, but I'm listening.

-Fox
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Oh me too. I did it for "the challenge" because my airline keeps ordering them and it's a beast I'm going to have to slay one day so might as well slay it from the comforts of the right seat, was my rationale for going to the 330.

There is still a large percentage of people at my company that are staunchly anti-Airbus, which is fine. But I don't know a lot of people with substantial Airbus experience that think poorly of it. There are some, of course, but from experience most people that have flown it for a number of years enjoy the experience.

I'm a convert.

But honestly speaking, I like flying big airplanes. And most of our bigger airplanes are FBW so I can either slay the beast and stack cheddar or seek other employment at a carrier without a large FBW fleet.
 
Wait...you mean to say that perishable skills atrophy with disuse? My god man!

But seriously, isn't that what a contingent of us have been saying on these threads ad nauseum for the last umpteen years? Is there any real debate in the actual pilot community that over reliance on automation is a bad thing?
 
typhoonpilot said:
In case you missed it, Gulfstream is finally the first commercial manufacturer to do what needed to be done with the sidesticks:

Gulfstream achieves another flight deck breakthrough with the Symmetry Flight Deck™. As business aviation’s leading innovator, Gulfstream debuts two revolutionary technologies in the all-new Gulfstream G500. The immersive, intelligent integration of the new flight systems enhances efficiency and further improves safety.

Active control sidesticks replace the control columns, creating more space and better comfort for pilots. The sidesticks are digitally linked to provide the same response and control of a traditional pedestal-mounted yoke to ensure that both pilots see and feel every maneuver and control input the other pilot makes.

Ten integrated touch screens eliminate the majority of flight deck switches to reduce workload and improve how pilots interact with onboard systems. Using Gulfstream’s immersive Phase-of-Flight™ intelligence, the touch screens display a structured task list and selection options needed for a specific phase of flight.


Maybe Airbus will follow suit with future models.


Typhoonpilot
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Yeah, I saw that previously. Good on them. A much better and safer design.
 
ppragman said:
Wait...you mean to say that perishable skills atrophy with disuse? My god man!

But seriously, isn't that what a contingent of us have been saying on these threads ad nauseum for the last umpteen years? Is there any real debate in the actual pilot community that over reliance on automation is a bad thing?
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I think the debate is on what "over reliance" is. Boris and I argue endlessly about that. I don't think airline pilots are anywhere close to being too reliant upon automation. I want to see more automation.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I wish we went every 9. 12 is too long. 6 is arguably too frequently (the E75 is 6 months for Captains and 12 for FOs, because we aren't AQP yet; the remainder of the company is a 12 month AQP cycle).

Day 1, MV. Day 2, LOE. SEEYUH.
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At VX we're 6 month PC and 6 month LOFTs for both CAs and FOs and in both sessions we are paired together as such.

AAPalmTree said:
What's the automation level typically used at DL/spirit/VA/Allegiant on the bus? Have a good idea of the level at UAL and AA (which seems to differ substantially on AT usage).
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At VX, nothing that forbids you from turning the AP/AT off. They want a coupled approach when the vis is below 3/4SM / 4000RVR until you get the environment in sight, and autolands for all CAT II / III approaches. But if you are flying and want to turn the AP and/or the AT off, have at it.
 
typhoonpilot said:
In case you missed it, Gulfstream is finally the first commercial manufacturer to do what needed to be done with the sidesticks:

Gulfstream achieves another flight deck breakthrough with the Symmetry Flight Deck™. As business aviation’s leading innovator, Gulfstream debuts two revolutionary technologies in the all-new Gulfstream G500. The immersive, intelligent integration of the new flight systems enhances efficiency and further improves safety.

Active control sidesticks replace the control columns, creating more space and better comfort for pilots. The sidesticks are digitally linked to provide the same response and control of a traditional pedestal-mounted yoke to ensure that both pilots see and feel every maneuver and control input the other pilot makes.

Ten integrated touch screens eliminate the majority of flight deck switches to reduce workload and improve how pilots interact with onboard systems. Using Gulfstream’s immersive Phase-of-Flight™ intelligence, the touch screens display a structured task list and selection options needed for a specific phase of flight.


Maybe Airbus will follow suit with future models.


Typhoonpilot
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I've never seen a yoke installed on the pedestal, maybe the pilots are supposed to share it.
 
We had an AA jumpseater last week in one of the oldest 320s. I asked him how old he thought it was.

"5.. maybe 10 years?"

"It's actually 25 years old."

"Wow! Not exactly the plastic throwaway airplane that all the Boeing people said it was"


I hand flew up to 18, then all automation off visual approach to 12 into MIA. :) There was also an MD-88 check airman in the other jumpseat. "It was fantastic to see an airbus guy actually turn it all off! I was beginning to think the airplane wasn't capable of that!"
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
We had an AA jumpseater last week in one of the oldest 320s. I asked him how old he thought it was.

"5.. maybe 10 years?"

"It's actually 25 years old."

"Wow! Not exactly the plastic throwaway airplane that all the Boeing people said it was"


I hand flew up to 18, then all automation off visual approach to 12 into MIA. :) There was also an MD-88 check airman in the other jumpseat. "It was fantastic to see an airbus guy actually turn it all off! I was beginning to think the airplane wasn't capable of that!"
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Eeeeeeeeyup!

It's funny hearing some people talk about ancient MD-88's when some of the -88's are newer than the 320's.
 
The back of a Delta MD88 was always fun with those weird noises.

Of course, it comes at the risk of sitting next to blades that could fail catastrophically uncontained and penetrate the cabin and kill people. This happened once to a Delta MD88 a while ago in Florida on a flight headed to ATL. Killed 2 or 3 people, I think :(
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The back of a Delta MD88 was always fun with those weird noises.

Of course, it comes at the risk of sitting next to blades that could fail catastrophically uncontained and penetrate the cabin and kill people. This happened once to a Delta MD88 a while ago in Florida on a flight headed to ATL. Killed 2 or 3 people, I think :(
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That was back in 97 or 98.... I always think about that when I'm back in "commuter seating."

The blades are hot so you won't feel it, right?
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Correct... that is what the regs say! I'm too lazy to go find the specific page, but I do know it in our manuals. :)
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If you can find it, not in some ones FOM/GOM but part 91, a beer I will buy you. I've read the Advisory Circular several times as well as the FAR. As far as I can tell, an autopilot with alt hold has to be operational when entering RVSM airspace. There's nothing that says it has to be engaged and it also allows for disconnecting the autopilot as needed for retriming. Or something to that effect. I've definitely searched for it, maybe my interpretation is incorrect. It probably is.
 
PositionAndHold said:
If you can find it, not in some ones FOM/GOM but part 91, a beer I will buy you. I've read the Advisory Circular several times as well as the FAR. As far as I can tell, an autopilot with alt hold has to be operational when entering RVSM airspace. There's nothing that says it has to be engaged and it also allows for disconnecting the autopilot as needed for retriming. Or something to that effect. I've definitely searched for it, maybe my interpretation is incorrect. It probably is.
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Our manual specifically says that altitude hold has to be operational and engaged in RVSM cruise.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Our manual specifically says that altitude hold has to be operational and engaged in RVSM cruise.
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Right, but I think he is correct about the reg itself. Your procedures (and ours) are more restrictive than the FAR.

I'm fairly sure that at ASA it didn't have to be engaged. It just had to be operational. That may have changed since I left, but that was my memory. I remember that because we had conversations about it at least a few times during the merger with XJT.
 
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