Air India plane crash

[Roger Roger]

It will when it initially illuminates but if the master caution is reset it only will come on with recall.

And at the gate with the engines off you get an overhead light for the FDR normally so you always have to check that MAINT light either way.

Maddening isn’t it…

Signed, someone who as also been stung by the MAINT light. In my case we were waiting out an EDCT in the terminal only to come in 30 mins prior to find that nugget of joy.

Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of Ian’s story where it should have come on for the previous crew after landing.

 

[Roger Roger]

Looking at you, MAINT light in the Max.

Just got saved by a jumpseater the other day who noticed it was on before push. Figured it would be a quick reset, but it turns out it was detecting metal in the engine oil and they grounded the plane.

Both FO and I were sure it wasn’t on when we got in but they say it would’ve been on after the previous landing. Regardless, we sure as hell would’ve noticed a master caution or a (gasp!) EICAS message. Thanks, Boeing.

The aggravating thing is that on the MAX all of this stuff is monitored and controlled by computers anyway. The days of a pressure switch or what have you actually illuminating the light on the overhead panel are long gone. It would be trivial (in the grand scheme of things) to have those big ol TV screens display and EICAS

 

[derg]

Yup. Because India still has them and the fire damage is beyond their capabilities to decode.

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/black-box-crashed-air-india-jet-still-india-ani-reports-2025-06-24/

Air India Crash: Civil Aviation Minister Rejects Speculations on Black Boxes Being Sent Abroad

Civil Aviation Minister K. Ram Mohan Naidu confirms black box will be examined by India. "Let the AAIB conduct the probe and go through the entire process," dismissing claims of sending the boxes abroad.

www.outlookindia.com

As the story goes, the AAIB recently spent millions upon millions (crores) of Rupees on their AAIB facilities, including "state of the art" decoding facilities, equipment, and room. And this is the first crash to use new space/equipment... and... they can't.


So at this point, saving face is more important than getting truth in a timely fashion. *Insert Indian head nod*

I’ll have to read that to see how they sourced their information.

NOT doubting, but considering many parts of the media have been sourcing “Truth Social” for everything, I’m a little jaded when it comes to fact checking.

 

[Ian_J]

It will when it initially illuminates but if the master caution is reset it only will come on with recall.

And at the gate with the engines off you get an overhead light for the FDR normally so you always have to check that MAINT light either way.

Maddening isn’t it…

Signed, someone who as also been stung by the MAINT light. In my case we were waiting out an EDCT in the terminal only to come in 30 mins prior to find that nugget of joy.

Shouldn’t that illuminate an OVERHEAD light on the….whatever the term is for our redneck EICAS? Of course, half the time you have to hit that thing 2 or 3 times before all the lights work…

It absolutely does illuminate the overhead light. But the first time you mash that thing to see if anything is wrong, at least for my shop, is during the after start flow.

 

[Roger Roger]

It absolutely does illuminate the overhead light. But the first time you mash that thing to see if anything is wrong, at least for my shop, is during the after start flow.

Yeah, same here. I was thinking more along the lines of it should have lit up for the previous crew after landing.

 

[Ian_J]

Yeah, same here. I was thinking more along the lines of it should have lit up for the previous crew after landing.

Oh, true.

 

[Ian_J]

Lesson learned though. At my shop the first pilot on is supposed to check that back overhead panel, and I am not blaming the FO at all for this, it’s easy to overlook especially if you rarely get a max, but I’ll be double checking that panel no matter when I arrive from now on.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I’ll have to read that to see how they sourced their information.

NOT doubting, but considering many parts of the media have been sourcing “Truth Social” for everything, I’m a little jaded when it comes to fact checking.

Parliamentary panel flagged ‘modest’ funding of AAIB, the agency investigating AI-171 crash

For the financial year 2025-26, the capital outlay for the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) stood at ₹20 crore.

www.fortuneindia.com

It just opened April 2025:



In April 2025, Union Minister of Civil Aviation Ram Mohan Naidu inaugurated the Digital Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder (DFDR & CVR) Laboratory at the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) in New Delhi. Widely referred to as the ‘Black Box Lab’, this facility was established with an investment of ₹9 crore.

The new lab was touted to bring India a step closer to a safer aviation ecosystem by enabling the identification of root causes of incidents effectively and ensuring accountability, which remains the cornerstone of aviation safety. The Union minister had highlighted that only through effective and independent investigations can future accidents be prevented.

On Thursday, while issuing a clarification media reports that said that the black box from AI171 is being sent abroad for retrieval and analysis, the ministry of civil aviation said the decision regarding the location for decoding the flight recorders will be taken by the AAIB after due assessment of all technical, safety, and security considerations.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

9 crore Indian rupees is about 1.2m USD.

 

[MikeD]

9 crore Indian rupees is about 1.2m USD.

The senior captains want to know what the exchange rate in Dinars is.

 

[WacoFan]

That rumor was false apparently.



I’ve never understood accidents where pilots did not firewall everything they had in order to avoid crashing / ground contact.

C5 Galaxy - thrust lever swap, effectively taking them from 3 working engines to 2. But only 1 engine was truly down, 3 were good. If you’re about to crash, why not firewall all 4 levers forward?

Air Florida - improper thrust set due to probe icing. If you’re about to go down, why not firewall both engines?

Transair 737 HNL. 1 engine fail, working engine was idled accidentally. But at no point was either engine shut off. Gliding to the water. Water contact imminent.. why not firewall both engines?



In all 3 cases, grabbing all thrust levers and shoving them full forward could very well have saved the day. Nothing is worse than hitting the ground and crashing. Push ‘em forward, every thrust lever.

Not sure how it works on big machines but have a friend who sold his 180 and the new owner had a seat slide back on his second flight. My understanding was it was just prior to bringing the tail up on take off and he ended up groundlooping and dragging a wingtip. I was conscious of Cessna seats and always made sure to check but even at that I had a slideback on my long x-country as a student (Cessna 140). Slid shortly after rotation - was able to climb out without wrecking. Moved into the right seat and completed the flight. But it gets your attention. Had I not been aware of previous wrecks it may have had a different outcome.

 

[CFI A&P]

Not sure how it works on big machines but have a friend who sold his 180 and the new owner had a seat slide back on his second flight. My understanding was it was just prior to bringing the tail up on take off and he ended up groundlooping and dragging a wingtip. I was conscious of Cessna seats and always made sure to check but even at that I had a slideback on my long x-country as a student (Cessna 140). Slid shortly after rotation - was able to climb out without wrecking. Moved into the right seat and completed the flight. But it gets your attention. Had I not been aware of previous wrecks it may have had a different outcome.

There are numerous ADs against the Cessna seat rails. Repetitive inspections at 100 hour or annual intervals (whichever comes first), add a safety stop in the rail, or an inertial reel to the seat….

McFarlane made a tool as a quick check tool without needing to grab the micrometer.

GAUGE SR1 - SEAT RAIL WEAR GAUGE - McFarlane Aviation

FAA-PMA parts for Cessna, Piper, Grumman, and Beechcraft aircraft. Products include cables, engine controls, steering rods, seat rails, engine controls, rudder pedals and many more airframe parts.

www.mcfarlaneaviation.com

 

[Roger Roger]

There are numerous ADs against the Cessna seat rails. Repetitive inspections at 100 hour or annual intervals (whichever comes first), add a safety stop in the rail, or an inertial reel to the seat….

McFarlane made a tool as a quick check tool without needing to grab the micrometer.

GAUGE SR1 - SEAT RAIL WEAR GAUGE - McFarlane Aviation

FAA-PMA parts for Cessna, Piper, Grumman, and Beechcraft aircraft. Products include cables, engine controls, steering rods, seat rails, engine controls, rudder pedals and many more airframe parts.

www.mcfarlaneaviation.com

I wonder how many of those recurrences I signed off over the years.

 

[WacoFan]

There are numerous ADs against the Cessna seat rails. Repetitive inspections at 100 hour or annual intervals (whichever comes first), add a safety stop in the rail, or an inertial reel to the seat….

McFarlane made a tool as a quick check tool without needing to grab the micrometer.

GAUGE SR1 - SEAT RAIL WEAR GAUGE - McFarlane Aviation

FAA-PMA parts for Cessna, Piper, Grumman, and Beechcraft aircraft. Products include cables, engine controls, steering rods, seat rails, engine controls, rudder pedals and many more airframe parts.

www.mcfarlaneaviation.com

My incident was in 1986. Safety stop was added a bit after this happened - can't exactly remember when but it wasn't long.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Lesson learned though. At my shop the first pilot on is supposed to check that back overhead panel, and I am not blaming the FO at all for this, it’s easy to overlook especially if you rarely get a max, but I’ll be double checking that panel no matter when I arrive from now on.

At my shop, doubly so in SEA:

Always always always check everything on the overhead panel. Mostly the fuel panel. MX loves to leave a valve open and pumps opposite of normal for an APU on. They do it to balance fuel, I think. To within a pound or so. Maybe it's cultural IDK. Also the autopilot disconnect mash bar thinking on the MCP. They disconnect that sometimes. For sure the MAINTENANCE light when I step in and when I'm taxiing in on a MAX too.

It's always the SURPRISE MUTHAHUMPER check first because there are so many switches in weird spots we don't normally touch in so many different places. It's likely you'll catch it as part of the flow but it's just so odd I like to get it out of the way first.

 

[Ian_J]

At my shop, doubly so in SEA:

Always always always check everything on the overhead panel. Mostly the fuel panel. MX loves to leave a valve open and pumps opposite of normal for an APU on. They do it to balance fuel, I think. To within a pound or so. Maybe it's cultural IDK. Also the autopilot disconnect mash bar thinking on the MCP. They disconnect that sometimes. For sure the MAINTENANCE light when I step in and when I'm taxiing in on a MAX too.

It's always the SURPRISE MUTHAHUMPER check first because there are so many switches in weird spots we don't normally touch in so many different places. It's likely you'll catch it as part of the flow but it's just so odd I like to get it out of the way first.

For sure and good advice.

For us it’s just the after overhead panel that’s anyone’s game. Overhead, middle to the left is mine and right two are the FOs. I definitely take a look at their two panels before we go… But yeah, I really gotta pay attention to the aft overhead panel if I’m not the first guy through the door.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

For sure and good advice.

For us it’s just the after overhead panel that’s anyone’s game. Overhead, middle to the left is mine and right two are the FOs. I definitely take a look at their two panels before we go… But yeah, I really gotta pay attention to the aft overhead panel if I’m not the first guy through the door.

Beefy missed it.

Yes, the aft overhead panel. At our shop it’s all FO flow.

As Capt, I check it anyway. MAINT/PSEU light.

I also like to put the IRS on left side selector, and select PPOS.

Esp on a transcon, approaching Gunnison, CO. Additional QRH procedure associated with an emergency descent that is either W or East of a lat/long line. It mentions to use the aft overhead panel to see PPOS.

So by habit, I just do that for all flights.


Do you have any info for Gunnison in your QRH for emergency descent at your shop?

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Beefy missed it.

Yes, the aft overhead panel. At our shop it’s all FO flow.

As Capt, I check it anyway. MAINT/PSEU light.

I also like to put the IRS on left side selector, and select PPOS.

Esp on a transcon, approaching Gunnison, CO. Additional QRH procedure associated with an emergency descent that is either W or East of a lat/long line. It mentions to use the aft overhead panel to see PPOS.

So by habit, I just do that for all flights.


Do you have any info for Gunnison in your QRH for emergency descent at your shop?

I missed what?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I missed what?

The regular overhead panel versus aft overhead panel.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

The regular overhead panel versus aft overhead panel.

Wow what pedantic take. Of course I'm shocked coming from you.