Air Force cancels Officer Training Boards

The Fez said:
We just had a commander's call down here at Laughlin, where the Group CC described how the upcoming RIF may be applied to UPT candidates. Basically, if you wash out, you're done. Not just at UPT. With the Air Force. Done. Bye-Bye. Although I don't think it would happen, he even added in that those in the audience that had attended the Academy could even get stuck with the bill for their education. So, not only did you fail out of UPT, you got kicked out, lost your job, and owe the government around $200,000. Ouch.
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Save the part about paying back school for NROTC/USNA types, this has been going on in the Navy/USMC training commands for a while now. I know more than a couple people who attrited from various stages of flight school and basically got the "golden handshake". A few were allowed to lateral transfer to other communities, but this has been VERY rare in the last year or so. I'll be interested to see how this affects newly winged/first tour guys......I definitely have some stake in that one
 
///AMG said:
Save the part about paying back school for NROTC/USNA types, this has been going on in the Navy/USMC training commands for a while now. I know more than a couple people who attrited from various stages of flight school and basically got the "golden handshake". A few were allowed to lateral transfer to other communities, but this has been VERY rare in the last year or so. I'll be interested to see how this affects newly winged/first tour guys......I definitely have some stake in that one
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Do those guys qualify for their ratings if they've completed UPT, or whatever the navy calls it?
 
ppragman said:
Do those guys qualify for their ratings if they've completed UPT, or whatever the navy calls it?
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If you get your wings, then you can do the equivalency exam and get a CSEL or CMEL depending on what you flew in flight school.....or a helo ticket for the helo guys. If you simply attrite from flight school prior to wings, then you are not eligibile for this.
 
Blackhawk said:
I saw pilots straight out of flight school assigned to positions such as XO of the veterinary clinic. There was no money to send them to advanced aircraft transitions, no money for flight training, and all the non-flying positions in aviation units were filled quickly. My wife's year group had an LT retention board, then a CPT promotion board. Between the two the promotion rate to captain was less than 75%.
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The Fez said:
We just had a commander's call down here at Laughlin, where the Group CC described how the upcoming RIF may be applied to UPT candidates. Basically, if you wash out, you're done. Not just at UPT. With the Air Force. Done. Bye-Bye. Although I don't think it would happen, he even added in that those in the audience that had attended the Academy could even get stuck with the bill for their education. So, not only did you fail out of UPT, you got kicked out, lost your job, and owe the government around $200,000. Ouch.
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I don't know if we'd talked about this, but during the post-Desert Storm RIF, as far as UPT went for the AF, guys had three options:

1. Drop out of UPT without finishing and leave the AF, no committment. Many Academy guys took this, having gotten a free education.

2. Finish UPT and get out of the AF, no committment.

3. Finish UPT and if you can find a Guard/Reserve unit that wanted you, transfer directly from active duty to them following completing UPT.

4. Be banked and after completing UPT and getting your wings, you get sent to another job in the AF such as missile silo officer, or personnel officer, or finance officer for an undetermined time until you can be brought back into flying.
 
Blackhawk said:
I don't know that reserve units will be safe, although the financial impact will be far less on you. I think you'll see services cutting just about everything to save some general's pet project. I saw this in the 90's with the Comanche in the Army. Everything in Army aviation was sacrificed in an attempt to save this project, including improvements in ASE (aircraft survivability equipment, such as IR jammers), identified as major shortcomings in the Gulf War. The result? Numerous crews were lost to IR missles in Iraq due to these same shortcomings identified a decade earlier (poor tactics did not help but that's a different story that I won't discuss on this board). Finally General Cody stepped in and cancelled the Comanche so that Army Aviation could free up the funds for some of these critical projects.
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For being part time reservist, I was meaning that if they want to get rid of me, go right on ahead, I'll be happy to go. Am just slowly gaining points for retirement, but don't necessarily like being the mil uniform and dealing with the same BS, even if it is part time.
 
MikeD said:
For being part time reservist, I was meaning that if they want to get rid of me, go right on ahead, I'll be happy to go. Am just slowly gaining points for retirement, but don't necessarily like being the mil uniform and dealing with the same BS, even if it is part time.
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Kind of what I figured... but young bucks who think they are safe in the Reserves/Guard may be in for a surprise.
 
I guess my bottom line:
1. To guys/gals in the military don't think you're safe and will continue flying hundreds of hours a year. Keep your eyes peeled for your next job- flying or otherwise.
2. For the others... do the math. The civilian market will probably start being flooded with former military pilots in about 4-5 years. This will be especially true for RW pilots. Think post-Vietnam. I know the Army has some aviation units manned at 150% due to combat rotations, especially FW units. Even if they only draw down to 100% that's a number of pilots who no longer have seats.
 
It may look bad now, but everything ebbs and flows. In five years when the American economy is kicking ass who knows what kind of bonuses they will be giving people to stay in. It's never as bad as it seems, and never as good for that matter.

On a side note, the 19th AF/CC was at IFS today and promised people who got an RPA out of UPT will have a chance to return to a manned AC. Is he blowing sunshine up our holes?
 
alphaone said:
It may look bad now, but everything ebbs and flows. In five years when the American economy is kicking ass who knows what kind of bonuses they will be giving people to stay in. It's never as bad as it seems, and never as good for that matter.

On a side note, the 19th AF/CC was at IFS today and promised people who got an RPA out of UPT will have a chance to return to a manned AC. Is he blowing sunshine up our holes?
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My point was that this is not just the economy. The FY 2011 budget will probably be a precursor of what can be expected as Iraq winds down. I think we will see a period similar to the 1970s.
 
alphaone said:
On a side note, the 19th AF/CC was at IFS today and promised people who got an RPA out of UPT will have a chance to return to a manned AC. Is he blowing sunshine up our holes?
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Well, since he owns the training pipeline, he probably has some legit insight.

The problem is, he only owns the program as long as he's in charge...meaning the next 19th AF/CC may not be as dedicated to making that happen as Feest is.

Personally, I'll believe it when I see it (that would be nice), but I don't see widespread return of RPA guys into the manned fleet given the current crack-like addiction that military leadership has for the RPA and the level of demand for ISR in the current wars.

Once Iraq/Afghanistan start winding down and there is excess capacity in the RPA fleet, AND if there's still dedication on the part of the Generals to return those guys to manned jobs, it will probably happen.
 
alphaone said:
On a side note, the 19th AF/CC was at IFS today and promised people who got an RPA out of UPT will have a chance to return to a manned AC. Is he blowing sunshine up our holes?
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I have a cabin in the pines located in the AZ desert to sell you if you're gullible enough to buy this.....or any promise/projection the AF and especially AETC or AFPC gives you.
 
Once there was a CSAF who looked us all in the eye and said, "Don't go get a Masters -- if the AF wants you to have a Masters Degree, we'll send you to school to go get one. Don't spend your precious spare time, which is all ready in short supply, taking classes to get a degree just so you can get promoted. Spend your time on becoming the best warrior you can or spend it with your family."

Today that CSAF is...retired...and the Masters requirement is back.
 
Hacker15e said:
Once there was a CSAF who looked us all in the eye and said, "Don't go get a Masters -- if the AF wants you to have a Masters Degree, we'll send you to school to go get one. Don't spend your precious spare time, which is all ready in short supply, taking classes to get a degree just so you can get promoted. Spend your time on becoming the best warrior you can or spend it with your family."

Today that CSAF is...retired...and the Masters requirement is back.
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I don't know who said that, but he was absolutely right! I'm sick and tired of people who don't do jack but fill squares. My leadership continues to "encourage" me to attend all of these worthless, redundant CGO conferences that do nothing but teach me how to make myself look better on paper. Sorry, but I'm usually far too busy moving the mission to care.
 
germb747 said:
I don't know who said that, but he was absolutely right! I'm sick and tired of people who don't do jack but fill squares. My leadership continues to "encourage" me to attend all of these worthless, redundant CGO conferences that do nothing but teach me how to make myself look better on paper. Sorry, but I'm usually far too busy moving the mission to care.
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That was Johnny Jumper.

I'm still unclear about which bits of guidance from the CSAF I'm supposed to listen to and which I'm supposed to ignore.

Regardless, idealogically I wholeheartedly agree with his intent. Too bad shoe clerk minds prevailed and the Masters is back to being (virtually) required for O-4 and above.

As an aside, on my Lt Col board there was one guy who was promoted without a Masters and without ACSC complete. I can only imagine that he had 15 DFCs or something.
 
Hacker15e said:
That was Johnny Jumper.

I'm still unclear about which bits of guidance from the CSAF I'm supposed to listen to and which I'm supposed to ignore.

Regardless, idealogically I wholeheartedly agree with his intent. Too bad shoe clerk minds prevailed and the Masters is back to being (virtually) required for O-4 and above.

As an aside, on my Lt Col board there was one guy who was promoted without a Masters and without ACSC complete. I can only imagine that he had 15 DFCs or something.
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Get back to your CSAFs reading list. You copy of Total Quality Management is in the mail.......

:)
 
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