Air Canada FAs on strike

In general, my "financial decisions" revolve around prioritizing things other than making as much money as I possibly can. If people take that as a vice, all I can say is that I have different foundational values and a different opinion of what life should be, and we can leave it at that.

Ok but you were complaining about just “treading water”. Be honest, $100k is an insane amount of dough - about $195,000 curently. An unprecedented sum for regional pilots.

So you spend everything that comes in, that’s your prerogative, but don’t act like it’s something that’s just happening to you. You make the choice.


Yeah idk what to tell you guys. Stuff's expensive without one bit of retail therapy. Leaving tech was a total financial reset for me, and I spent 10 of the last 12 years making less than 100k. eight of those I made less than 50k.

Currently on year 10 ca pay at my airline and just treading water.
 
Personal goal is to mortgage free. If all goes well, I should be able to do that in 2 yrs.


Imagine a life of just property taxes, home insurance, utilities, and food bills. Basic essential life that could be supported even as a McDonald’s manager. That would be the ultimate stress free situation.

My last house was paid off, but then I upgraded when I moved by accident (long story). Once my savings is at 1.5 years my goal is to then go gangbusters at my mortgage again and get it paid off. It is a really nice from a stress standpoint not having a mortgage.

I make more money than I ever did and drive around in a paid off Honda with my GF driving around in a paid off 7 year old Kia. I look at the toys others have and think, man, that would be fun…but not worth the stress debt/financial insecurity gives me.
 
My last house was paid off, but then I upgraded when I moved by accident (long story). Once my savings is at 1.5 years my goal is to then go gangbusters at my mortgage again and get it paid off. It is a really nice from a stress standpoint not having a mortgage.

I make more money than I ever did and drive around in a paid off Honda with my GF driving around in a paid off 7 year old Kia. I look at the toys others have and think, man, that would be fun…but not worth the stress debt/financial insecurity gives me.

Just wait, at some point that absolutely ridiculous paycheck you get just becomes a bigger number on a bigger stack of cash and you kind of stop looking at restaurant menu prices and just pay cash instead of playing stupid credit card reward program games.
 
My last house was paid off, but then I upgraded when I moved by accident (long story). Once my savings is at 1.5 years my goal is to then go gangbusters at my mortgage again and get it paid off. It is a really nice from a stress standpoint not having a mortgage.

I make more money than I ever did and drive around in a paid off Honda with my GF driving around in a paid off 7 year old Kia. I look at the toys others have and think, man, that would be fun…but not worth the stress debt/financial insecurity gives me.

For some reason people really have a bad case of financial FOMO, and it's been like that my whole career. I've had people try to explain how I should sacrifice my residential security do this or that because that's the way the market is going and I am missing out on a whole lotta bread. I can't even count the the number of guys and gals who tried to get me to cash out my home and invest in the market. When I explain that my home is not an investment vehicle, but someplace that covers my head and keeps my stuff dry, it's like watching a dog run into a sliding glass door. Of course, they hand wave it away saying "well, had you done what I said, you'd be ahead", well, maybe, but how many sleepless nights would I have had in all those years.

The same goes for health care. Every time someone starts in on it, it's well, if you are healthy.... Well, that's exactly what insurance is for, when you're not healthy, so pardon me if I don't play in that casino.

Career Changing:
Yea, I've seen it happen. Stuck my toe in that pool. It can work in some very, very limited circumstances. Maybe the situation is just so bad and you're so miserable with what you are doing there is really no alternative for your mental health.

But you have to be starkly realistic in your goals, the schools and the job prospects, and this is something we do a piss poor job of with people entering the job market, and it's 10x worse for those who want to change. People go on line, and they read stories about people who got scholarships, and good jobs and all the good stuff, when in most case those situations are either extreme outliers, they had additional, significant support or they're just plain fibbing. And this was 20 years ago, and now SM makes it even worse.

Everyone reads the forums at IWANNABEANXYZ.COM, and thinks they can pull up roots at 40, pay $300k for an degree, plus another $50-75k to prep because they've been out of school for 10 years, because ONE person actually made it work, because they had nice parents, a flush spouse, or got a scholarship because of an exceedingly unlikely set of circumstances. Oh, yea, there's the little detail of actually getting into school.

Are there people who can make it work? Sure, those people are generally already covered. Police/Fire/Military who put in their 20 and got a check coming every month. Spouse who makes some bread and can cover the roof over your head. Really nice parents. Maybe you sold a little business you started and now want to coast working for someone else. But the stark, cold facts are that if you are past 35, it almost never makes financial sense to make that jump. Yea, golden handcuffs suck, but that's the world we live in. If you're 35, you are just starting the upward trajectory of your earning power. Burn 3-4 years in school making less than zero, plus another 3-5 years at the bottom of the pay scale, probably working 60-80 hour weeks, and you've destroyed your earning curve. Oh, yea, you've got a couple of hundo in new debt, and you've missed out on the compounding on the money you could have saved.

In almost every case, it's far better to go learn welding, plumbing, electric, HVAC, some trade, apprentice two-three years (while getting paid!), take a fraction of the money you would have spent, and hang your own shingle. And now you're your own boss. Local kid did that with plumbing. Put in a couple of years, learned his trade, got his ticket, put some money into new gear and a new truck, spouse works the phone. Couple years in, it's all paid off, phone is ringing off the hook because he does good work, master of his own destiny.

It's heartbreaking to show the math to people. Some people don't care, press on, try to be the outlier, and that's awesome, as long as they go into it eyes wide open. Others are absolutely stunned about what a raw deal it can be. Others are really upset about the stark, in your face ageism that happens, today, at universities and other places lining up to take your dream money.
 
Adjusted for inflation, I make ~$100k in 1999 dollars.

What were regional 10 year captain rates in 1999-2001?

I'll wait. Now, consider that house prices and rent have increased at a rate that has dramatically exceeded inflation.



Maybe I have. I mean, I've always been extremely conservative with my planning. I avoided excessive risk during the days of credit default swap by avoiding getting a mortgage when I would have been most easily able to. The people who took those foolish risks—interest-only ARMs, etc—got bailed out when everything crashed, as did the banks, and left those of us who were trying to make sound fiscal decisions holding the bag.

That did sting.

But that doesn't mean I bear no responsibility for my current financial state. My biggest poor financial decision was coming to aviation. I'm talking with a tech company that wants to interview me for a job that would easily double my total compensation. I was willing to take less, overall, for flying and quality of life. I don't care about money, personally. But to be clear, I have no debt, I haven't ever had large amounts of debt, I don't buy wide-screen TVs or porsches. I drive a 2007 Mazda RX-8, and my family has a ram truck and a 2001 honda civic with 250,000 miles on it.

I think you're underestimating the impact of having either generational wealth or home ownership in the current market. Mortgages under $500k for houses valued at $1.5m+ give you a lot of wiggle room. An $800k mortgage at 3% is extremely appealing when your house has doubled in value and mortgage rates are north of 6%.

In general, my "financial decisions" revolve around prioritizing things other than making as much money as I possibly can. If people take that as a vice, all I can say is that I have different foundational values and a different opinion of what life should be, and we can leave it at that.
I just watched Lethal Weapon the other day. Murtaugh was 50 years old with a two story house in Burbank, a kid in college, and a wife who doesn't work, and is about to retire. Al Bundy sold shoes and supported a wife and two kids. Yeah, it isn't like that anymore. 100k isn't what it used to be. In the DFW area, houses that are 800k were 400k or less just 5 years ago.
 
I just watched Lethal Weapon the other day. Murtaugh was 50 years old with a two story house in Burbank, a kid in college, and a wife who doesn't work, and is about to retire. Al Bundy sold shoes and supported a wife and two kids. Yeah, it isn't like that anymore. 100k isn't what it used to be. In the DFW area, houses that are 800k were 400k or less just 5 years ago.


All too true. But it’s not just housing. It’s the societal covenant itself breaking. Go to college they said. Check. Get a good degree, not basket weaving. For a lot of folks, check. Get good grades, check. Get a decent job and start earning + saving money. UNcheck for far too many people.


It like that ending scene of Falling Down, where the main antagonist (protagonist to many) goes, “I’m the bad guy? I did everything they told me to do.” That really resonates with a lot of people.

Bottom line, the current generation is coming out of college literally no different than the folks before did in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and even 010s, but the current outcome is vastly uncertain and far from economical in terms of affordability for LITERALLY everything.
 
I've been asked by folks over the years about career changing out of aviation to something else. Unless you're pre-dialed in, or have financial cover from a spouse, inheritance or lotto ticket, it's bad news to attempt to go to school in any kind of professional field. Once past about 30, there is simply no way to recoup the losses. and by 40 you'll be in a hole so deep you'll need to work to 72.

I'm talking anything medical, PhD or law related.
I know I sat on this for a bit, but I'm curious as to what your comment relates to in the discussion. I'm trying to figure out if I missed a segue in there somewhere.
 
I know I sat on this for a bit, but I'm curious as to what your comment relates to in the discussion. I'm trying to figure out if I missed a segue in there somewhere.

You brought up career changing, and I added to the conversation. My experience with it echoes what seems to be your experience, in that it can have serious financial consequences that you need to be aware of before jumping.
 
You brought up career changing, and I added to the conversation. My experience with it echoes what seems to be your experience, in that it can have serious financial consequences that you need to be aware of before jumping.
Ah, ok!

My ears perked at the concept of "career changing," as I worked in tech to get my certs and ratings with the intention of moving to aviation, so in my case it wasn't really a career change, just working my way through getting qualified and building time over the years.

And to be clear, I don't regret leaving tech for aviation. However, it didn't work out like I'd hoped, pretty much entirely in terms of QOL.

I haven't taken a vacation in as long as I can remember. The closest I got was a bit of admin leave to go on a field trip to Artesia, NM this year for a week.

Current employer is determined to extract every ounce of blood from this stone.

I tend to think (and hope) that people who do truly change careers are doing it for reasons other than money.
 
Adjusted for inflation, I make ~$100k in 1999 dollars.

What were regional 10 year captain rates in 1999-2001?

I can’t quite find anything that old, but I was able to dig up pay tables for Air Wisconsin in 2003:

IMG_0359.jpeg

Adjusted for inflation,

Year 10 BAE-146 pay is equivalent to $142.72/hr today

Year 10 51-70 seat jet pay is equivalent to $130.06/hr today

Year 10 CL-65 pay is equivalent to $121.55/hr today
 
I can’t quite find anything that old, but I was able to dig up pay tables for Air Wisconsin in 2003:

View attachment 85081
Adjusted for inflation,

Year 10 BAE-146 pay is equivalent to $142.72/hr today

Year 10 51-70 seat jet pay is equivalent to $130.06/hr today

Year 10 CL-65 pay is equivalent to $121.55/hr today

That's around my recollection. It's frustrating how hard it is to dig up info these days.

Anyway, I make about $185/hr. In addition, health insurance coverage (and every insurance coverage) is far more expensive; I pay almost $400/mo in loss of medical alone, so ... basically about there.

(Also, flying the BAe 146 always kinda sounded fun. Saw a Neptune 146 on the ramp at RDD a few days ago, and if I could get a fire gig where I wasn't on the road 100% of the fire season, I'd be all over it.)

But I digress. My main point is that people get too fixated on absolute numbers, but they're really meaningless without context. Making a mil a year? In 1999, you'd be chillin' on your superyacht. In 2025, not so much. $180k now is $100k in 1999 dollars, and inflation-adjusted buying power is down with it. So people talking about how awesome regional pay is right now and "Back in my day!!11," just keep in mind that it's not the bump you think it is. Average house on the block I live on is $2m. Just a crappy suburb in San Jose. I will never afford that. In 1999, they would have been closer to $250k. Which at the time I thought was ridiculous, because spending a quarter million dollars on a house seemed nuts to me.

Numbers change more than people realize. Don't get hung up on absolute values.
 
That's around my recollection. It's frustrating how hard it is to dig up info these days.

Anyway, I make about $185/hr. In addition, health insurance coverage (and every insurance coverage) is far more expensive; I pay almost $400/mo in loss of medical alone, so ... basically about there.

(Also, flying the BAe 146 always kinda sounded fun. Saw a Neptune 146 on the ramp at RDD a few days ago, and if I could get a fire gig where I wasn't on the road 100% of the fire season, I'd be all over it.)

But I digress. My main point is that people get too fixated on absolute numbers, but they're really meaningless without context. Making a mil a year? In 1999, you'd be chillin' on your superyacht. In 2025, not so much. $180k now is $100k in 1999 dollars, and inflation-adjusted buying power is down with it. So people talking about how awesome regional pay is right now and "Back in my day!!11," just keep in mind that it's not the bump you think it is. Average house on the block I live on is $2m. Just a crappy suburb in San Jose. I will never afford that. In 1999, they would have been closer to $250k. Which at the time I thought was ridiculous, because spending a quarter million dollars on a house seemed nuts to me.

Numbers change more than people realize. Don't get hung up on absolute values.

The rise in assets ie houses is just a reflection in the amount that your fiat dollars have been debased. The house is still the same value. Your 2025 dollars are just worth far less than you 1999 dollars.
 
That's around my recollection. It's frustrating how hard it is to dig up info these days.

Anyway, I make about $185/hr. In addition, health insurance coverage (and every insurance coverage) is far more expensive; I pay almost $400/mo in loss of medical alone, so ... basically about there.

(Also, flying the BAe 146 always kinda sounded fun. Saw a Neptune 146 on the ramp at RDD a few days ago, and if I could get a fire gig where I wasn't on the road 100% of the fire season, I'd be all over it.)

But I digress. My main point is that people get too fixated on absolute numbers, but they're really meaningless without context. Making a mil a year? In 1999, you'd be chillin' on your superyacht. In 2025, not so much. $180k now is $100k in 1999 dollars, and inflation-adjusted buying power is down with it. So people talking about how awesome regional pay is right now and "Back in my day!!11," just keep in mind that it's not the bump you think it is. Average house on the block I live on is $2m. Just a crappy suburb in San Jose. I will never afford that. In 1999, they would have been closer to $250k. Which at the time I thought was ridiculous, because spending a quarter million dollars on a house seemed nuts to me.

Numbers change more than people realize. Don't get hung up on absolute values.
If you’re making 180k a year and complaining it ain’t enough then this whole side thread topic is absurd. QOL aside that’s plenty of money to do whatever you want.
 
If you’re making 180k a year and complaining it ain’t enough then this whole side thread topic is absurd. QOL aside that’s plenty of money to do whatever you want.
Well, I would think so - getting by on just about 31K/year. was easier a couple years ago, for sure, but I still buy eggs🤷‍♂️
 
Well, I would think so - getting by on just about 31K/year. was easier a couple years ago, for sure, but I still buy eggs🤷‍♂️
I don't know who/what you're quoting, but my parents are in the same boat. I'm really worried about what happens to people on a fixed income at this rate, unless the bottom falls out. I personally know too many people under dire threat of homelessness right now, who are literally asking for mutual aid so they can eat. And with the war on the homeless as it's currently going, a lot of this feels so dire.

How can we, as a society, treat people this way? And act as if people's situation is their own fault, their own responsibility? We know that wealth, not ability or effort, is by far the greatest predictor of economic success, stability and—in the US—longevity, and yet we like to pretend that people living in poverty are simply under- or misapplying themselves.

The whole subtext of this conversation, if you read between the lines, is echoing a case that it's morally wrong to be poor. People who make "poor financial decisions," who "spend foolishly," who don't "maximize wealth" are implicitly inferior.
 
if I could get a fire gig where I wasn't on the road 100% of the fire season, I'd be all over it.
have you looked recently? i’m pretty sure neptune does rotations now. you’ll definitely be busier than the airlines but at least it’s not on the road the whole season.
 
have you looked recently? i’m pretty sure neptune does rotations now. you’ll definitely be busier than the airlines but at least it’s not on the road the whole season.
I actually hadn't heard that. Thanks for the update—I'll look into it!

I doubt it'd be busier than I am right now, but if it is, at least there'll be a decent reason for it.
 
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