"Agency Shop"

[SpiceWeasel]

I'm keeping it to myself so we can at least stand to be in the same room together come time for NJC. No need for it to get so ugly that we can't.

You're just making me laugh, dude. If you can't come out and say it here, then don't even pretend you're upset. I don't even get what's so upsetting about expecting people to do their jobs. Apparently being an ALPA rep is just for the title? Woo yay I'm an ALPA guy?!?!

 

[skydog2]

So, I saw this word out there on another forum, and it got me to thinking.... why on EARTH do we have it?

Just last week, I heard an agency shopper (ie one who pays the contract mx fee, but isn't a part of the union), criticizing the folks who voted no on contract 09 (well 05, really).... that sorta annoyed me, in that, someone who's getting a free ride at this place has the gall to take sides on a vote....

To me, it's one thing to get a "free ride" as a pilot who's getting the benefits that ALPA has put forth over its history.... but to employed at a unionized carrier and allowed to not be a union member.... whaaaaaa?

Unions don't hire people. Unions don't pay people. Therefore unions don't get a say in who an employer hires or retains. In a perfect world, you wouldn't be required to join a union, or pay the "contract maintenance fee." But that would also mean that the terms of the CBA would not apply to you.

This shows you where the priorities of the union are. Dues, contract maintenance fees, and "agency shops" are all methods of ensuring a certain amount of money and power flow into a union, which in turn gives you an insight into what really matters to a union. They don't care about you; they care about your money.

Current law allows (forces) a company to do business with a union in this manner. And yet the unionists would have you believe it is the company that has all the power.

 

[higney85]

I do have to say kudos to one of our reps, though. I had a question about a 30/7 issue and sent him a text message......on Christmas day. I actually got a phone call back complete with contract and FOM references less than 15 minutes later.

'Could be just ATL that's having issues. All the guys in MEM (or at least all the guys in MEM NOW) are excellent. TK is busting his butt trying to keep everyone informed on stuff, and he's been very accessible in the crew room. I don't think I've seen the calendar down in ops updated since I started here, and it's been updated at least four times in the past month with new stuff on there.

It was a great excuse to avoid the wife's family for a few..

 

[kellwolf]

In a perfect world, you wouldn't be required to join a union, or pay the "contract maintenance fee." But that would also mean that the terms of the CBA would not apply to you.

No, in a perfect world, management would treat their employees properly to the point the employees wouldn't feel the need to have a union to protect themselves.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Bueller.....Bueller.....

I guess I was wrong.... I shouldn't expect someone who volunteers or who is elected to work hard and do their job well....

ALPA, you're disappointing me.

 

[skydog2]

No, in a perfect world, management would treat their employees properly to the point the employees wouldn't feel the need to have a union to protect themselves.

Now this is just backwards. It is management that should have the expectation that the employee will treat the employer properly. That's why management PAYS employees.

 

[kellwolf]

Now this is just backwards. It is management that should have the expectation that the employee will treat the employer properly. That's why management PAYS employees.

It's a two way street. I'm not gonna put up with being treated as a sub-human simply because I'm drawing a pay check.

 

[skydog2]

It's a two way street. I'm not gonna put up with being treated as a sub-human simply because I'm drawing a pay check.

You work for them; they pay you. Two way street. So unless they are locking you up in a dungeon, feeding you gruel, and beating you, what kind of "subhuman" treatment are you getting?

 

[higney85]

You work for them; they pay you. Two way street. So unless they are locking you up in a dungeon, feeding you gruel, and beating you, what kind of "subhuman" treatment are you getting?

I will venture to guess you haven't been "pinnaclized".

 

[jtrain609]

I will venture to guess you haven't been "pinnaclized".

I'm willing to bet that anybody that has this kind of an attitude has never worked at a company, or been in such a destitute situation so as to necessitate working at a company that created the labor laws that we have.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Was your name on the last ballot?

Just an interjection here- just because someone has strong feelings on something doesn't mean they are the best person for the job.

I was asked to run for LEC rep this last election, but I did not as I do not consider myself a good enough politician (it is political) to do it. I say what's on my mind, which does not work very well.

However I do stay intently involved with our LEC. The irony is- and Todd, listen up here- whenever a member calls out a union rep, the usual response is 'well, get involved, then you can complain." We did get involved- very. Then we got called "a vocal minority." Ain't that a peach?

Take a step back, and look what you are becoming.

 

[kellwolf]

You work for them; they pay you. Two way street. So unless they are locking you up in a dungeon, feeding you gruel, and beating you, what kind of "subhuman" treatment are you getting?

So, just because a company pays me that means they can get away with forcing me to work on my day off (which was originally awarded by same said company up to three weeks prior), and if I choose not to without a damn good reason (often with paperwork to back it up), I can receive disciplinary action "up to and including termination". They can use and abuse me for 14+ hours then put me in a hotel room that is questionable in security and/or cleanliness. But because they pay me, I should shut the F up?

 

[Gonzo]

So, just because a company pays me that means they can get away with forcing me to work on my day off (which was originally awarded by same said company up to three weeks prior), and if I choose not to without a damn good reason (often with paperwork to back it up), I can receive disciplinary action "up to and including termination". They can use and abuse me for 14+ hours then put me in a hotel room that is questionable in security and/or cleanliness. But because they pay me, I should shut the F up?

In a word YES.

All those things are not new to Pinnacle. They where doing things like that before you worked there and will be doing them after you work there. You applied and wanted to work there, no body made you do it.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

In a word YES.

All those things are not new to Pinnacle. They where doing things like that before you worked there and will be doing them after you work there. You applied and wanted to work there, no body made you do it.

Bull. When you are at a company you are not a true company if you don't do things to help improve the company and the environment you work in.

 

[Gonzo]

Bull. When you are at a company you are not a true company if you don't do things to help improve the company and the environment you work in.

I am not saying don't try to improve the company and environment. What I am saying is don't go to a POS company and then be surprised when you get treated like poo. This isn't like the mainline guys that got one job and after BK it was something else. Pinnacle was/is and more then likely will always be a POS company.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I am not saying don't try to improve the company and environment. What I am saying is don't go to a POS company and then be surprised when you get treated like poo. This isn't like the mainline guys that got one job and after BK it was something else. Pinnacle was/is and more then likely will always be a POS company.

Pinnacle when there was a lot of movement was a very decent place to work. In fact, some of the stuff we had we don't even have at Delta... like vacation slide and a few other goodies.

To me, the quick movement and making captain quicker was almost priceless compared to going to someplace like Eagle or Horizon. Call me a , call me what you want... but I knew that while I was there I would be a positive influence on the company and help to make it a better place. I also knew that it was idiotic for me to go to a place where it was basically guaranteed to wait 8+ years for captain when I could upgrade in nearly worst case scenario in around 3-4 (turned out it was 1...jackpot).



edit- none of that probably came out quite right...read it and think what you will.

I don't believe in going working an airline or any place without a strategic purpose.

 

[Gonzo]

Maybe I am not making myself clear. I never said don't work at Pinnacle or any other company. I am saying don't be surprised when you get treated like poo. My guess is you where not the first person to try to make things better or the last but you can only do so much with the management team they have.

 

[kellwolf]

Pinnacle when there was a lot of movement was a very decent place to work. In fact, some of the stuff we had we don't even have at Delta... like vacation slide and a few other goodies.

When there was movement, yeah it wasn't so bad. Since the movement has ground to a screeching halt (I've actually moved BACKWARDS more than a few times since I upgraded nearly 2 years ago), it's essentially hell on earth unless you're in the top 10% in base.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

When there was movement, yeah it wasn't so bad. Since the movement has ground to a screeching halt (I've actually moved BACKWARDS more than a few times since I upgraded nearly 2 years ago), it's essentially hell on earth unless you're in the top 10% in base.

Do you have the problem with your NC where they're more focused on making things better for the senior pilots (ie them) and don't really understand why you'd want better reserve rules, better pay on the low end, etc?

 

[higney85]

Do you have the problem with your NC where they're more focused on making things better for the senior pilots (ie them) and don't really understand why you'd want better reserve rules, better pay on the low end, etc?

Before this turns into a discussion one of the big reasons the TA failed WAS because of the bias placed towards the "senior" and not having a deal that supported all ranges of seat/seniority. The MEC and NC is focused on all regimes of seat and seniority, not just a minority group. Reserve here is a life altering experience and not for the better- the TA language would have made it even worse.