"Agency Shop"

ATN_Pilot said:
Again, politics. Politics is all about understanding human behavior and learning how to manipulate it to accomplish a goal. In your case, the goal is to get a certain rep to do his job. So, how do you accomplish that?

You could call him out publicly and embarrass him. That's one option. But what will his reaction be, and will it accomplish your goal? Human nature is to defend yourself when attacked, and with many type-A personalities, to then counter-attack. So, this is probably not the best way to achieve your goal.

The other option would be give the guy an opportunity to save face, which satisfies his ego requirements. Talk to him behind closed doors and tell him that pilots aren't happy, and they think he should be doing such and such. Tell him that people are starting to talk, and you want to give him a heads up so he can do something to save his image. This gives him the opportunity to save face. If he still doesn't do anything, then you'll have to take other action.

Like I said, it's all about politics.
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Two words: screw politics.

I want no part of a union that engages in that behavior. I abhor politicians.
 
So essentially you don't want to do anything except just whine about it? You don't want to replace them and you don't want to work with them. I don't see many other options.
 
Damn Rex.

If I knew you'd start all this drama on a Saturday, when you sexxted me this morning, I would have left work to come entertain you.

Damn man.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
So essentially you don't want to do anything except just whine about it? You don't want to replace them and you don't want to work with them. I don't see many other options.
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Look, I whined about it, and I was told by certain folks WHEN I was attempting volunteer that "maybe if I didn't complain like I did I'd have an easier time getting a position".

ATN_Pilot said:
Then apparently you abhor results.
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You're there to make sure my contract is good and to protect me from the company. Any politics involving other union members or representatives is unacceptable and unbecoming of someone I'd want representing me. If you would engage in that sort of behavior over here, you'd be dang sure I'd want you recalled.

You serve me. Your political aspirations have no place in your service for me.
 
cencal83406 said:
Look, I whined about it, and I was told by certain folks WHEN I was attempting volunteer that "maybe if I didn't complain like I did I'd have an easier time getting a position".
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Depending on how you "whined," I might have told you the same thing. Was your "whining" public, like on the web board, or was it handled through the proper channels by calling your reps and talking to them first?

If you would engage in that sort of behavior over here, you'd be dang sure I'd want you recalled.
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I was once told by a great union rep "you're not an experienced rep until somebody's tried to recall you or sue you." Sounds about right. Pilots have a nasty habit of attacking the very people that get them the best results.

You serve me. Your political aspirations have no place in your service for me.
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No one is talking about "political aspirations." I'm talking politics, which is much different than someone having aspirations to move up the line or some such nonsense. If you want results, you simply need to learn how to deal with human behavior, which is really just effective politics. I'm sorry, but your way of doing things with knocking heads together and screaming about how someone should bow down and serve you will never get you results.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Depending on how you "whined," I might have told you the same thing. Was your "whining" public, like on the web board, or was it handled through the proper channels by calling your reps and talking to them first?
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Proper channels? Ok, so I need to talk to the person first and find out what's the deal, THEN post to the board.

For the record, in other instances I HAVE called my union reps. Gee do I love talking to VM, and not getting return phone calls.

If I were a rep, I would fully understand and expect someone to call me out on a public web board as a first means of informing me if I wasn't performing up to their expectations. After all:

MEC Approved Sources of Information
-E-mail
-Airlinkpilots.com
-Talk to any P2P Volunteer
-ALPA Crewroom Bulletin Board
-VARS 1-800-GOT-ALPA
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Airlinkpilots.com is second on the list. So if I've got a problem, ie, "where's my communication", or "why haven't I gotten any results on the grievance" etc., I find the web board to be an acceptable means of communication. I am perfectly willing to eat the crow in public by any member I call out.

Give me a break with your secrecy crap. If it needs to be aired, it should be.

Additionally, using the board DOES get results. However, you've got sensitive and defensive folks that say "Union volunteers are JUST volunteers, you shouldn't be criticizing them." Well, if you wanted to volunteer, you wanted to WORK for me. I don't care if you don't get paid, do your job, and do it well, or get out.
 
cencal83406 said:
Proper channels? Ok, so I need to talk to the person first and find out what's the deal, THEN post to the board.
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Yes, you should. It's the same thing we talk about when we discuss CRM as pilots. The first step is always to talk to the individual first, one-on-one. If that doesn't resolve it, then you take it to the next step.

For the record, in other instances I HAVE called my union reps. Gee do I love talking to VM, and not getting return phone calls.
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If you're leaving voicemails for all of your LEC Officers and not getting phone calls, then you're perfectly justified in taking it to the next level. But the phone calls should always be tried first.

If I were a rep, I would fully understand and expect someone to call me out on a public web board as a first means of informing me if I wasn't performing up to their expectations. After all:

Airlinkpilots.com is second on the list. So if I've got a problem, ie, "where's my communication", or "why haven't I gotten any results on the grievance" etc., I find the web board to be an acceptable means of communication. I am perfectly willing to eat the crow in public by any member I call out.
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When it says "airlinkpilots.com," it's talking about the MEC website, not the web board. The web board has never been an official place for communications. Attorneys hate them and constantly discourage reps from posting on them.

Give me a break with your secrecy crap. If it needs to be aired, it should be.

Additionally, using the board DOES get results. However, you've got sensitive and defensive folks that say "Union volunteers are JUST volunteers, you shouldn't be criticizing them." Well, if you wanted to volunteer, you wanted to WORK for me. I don't care if you don't get paid, do your job, and do it well, or get out.
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Do you not see the horrible attitude in what you're saying? These guys are volunteers, and they're all overworked. Yes, you deserve returned phone calls, I don't disagree, but you seem to have a horrible attitude towards the people that sacrifice their own time to benefit the pilot group. You only have one full-time rep at PCL, and that's the MEC Chairman. Everyone else is flying a line plus doing union work. I'm sure most of them also have families and other commitments, also. Think about that.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Do you not see the horrible attitude in what you're saying? These guys are volunteers, and they're all overworked. Yes, you deserve returned phone calls, I don't disagree, but you seem to have a horrible attitude towards the people that sacrifice their own time to benefit the pilot group. You only have one full-time rep at PCL, and that's the MEC Chairman. Everyone else is flying a line plus doing union work. I'm sure most of them also have families and other commitments, also. Think about that.
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RM told me something about his involvement. He said that it takes up most of his time. If volunteers aren't ready for that, then they need to beat feet. Seriously. If you can't handle sacrificing your own time, then don't do it.

There is NO excuse for subpar work, whether you're volunteering (hey, you wanted to do it), or getting paid for it.

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]If you don't like your job you don't strike. You just go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way.
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ATN_Pilot said:
If you don't get it, then I'm probably wasting my time, so never mind. We should probably be having this conversation over a few drinks, anyway, because it's really starting to piss me off. Not good. It would probably go much better in person.
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hahaha

I was on the ballot, yes. The pilots didn't decide they needed "me".

But, I'm not backing down. You're working for ME, and whether you're a volunteer or not, I want max effort. And don't pull the "we're volunteers" card if someone doesn't think you're doing a good job.

Simple. If you're getting pissed, you shouldn't be a union rep.

As an aside - I think I know what you're getting at: If I haven't "tried" to volunteer or volunteered, I have no room to complain. Well, too bad. Do your jobs, and don't act like prima donnas when someone holds your feet to the fire.
 
I do have to say kudos to one of our reps, though. I had a question about a 30/7 issue and sent him a text message......on Christmas day. I actually got a phone call back complete with contract and FOM references less than 15 minutes later.

'Could be just ATL that's having issues. All the guys in MEM (or at least all the guys in MEM NOW) are excellent. TK is busting his butt trying to keep everyone informed on stuff, and he's been very accessible in the crew room. I don't think I've seen the calendar down in ops updated since I started here, and it's been updated at least four times in the past month with new stuff on there.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Suffice it to say that my response would have multiple words censored, so I'll keep it to myself.
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Which is oh so professional and mature. Great Union Rep you are.

I think Holden Caufield would call that sort of person a phony.... if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

oh and you've piqued my interest. You know that PMs don't get censored, right....
 
kellwolf said:
I do have to say kudos to one of our reps, though. I had a question about a 30/7 issue and sent him a text message......on Christmas day. I actually got a phone call back complete with contract and FOM references less than 15 minutes later.

'Could be just ATL that's having issues. All the guys in MEM (or at least all the guys in MEM NOW) are excellent. TK is busting his butt trying to keep everyone informed on stuff, and he's been very accessible in the crew room. I don't think I've seen the calendar down in ops updated since I started here, and it's been updated at least four times in the past month with new stuff on there.
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Exactly, good for him! We need more guys like that. We don't need guys who just want the fancy title to strut around with.
 
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