After ATP how do I change XC Time

A

Alohaskies

New Member
FAR state something to the effect that XC time can be logged on flights (landing required) 100nm plus in distance if the XC time is used for rating. Though after getting your ATP rating it goes to (airport-airport). Do I make an adjusting entry to reallocate the XC time, or just start from there posting the new method?

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated, the FAR really never addresses this issue; and please don’t get it that stuff about you’re only required to log currencies and required training for a cert. Just wondering my senior’s have done.
Christopher
 
Who cares?

After you have your ATP, the only reason to track your cross country hours is your own personal wishes, so log it any way you want. After I got 1000 X-cty time I just stopped counting.
 
That what I thought, but several places I've applying to request break-down and they highlighted (airport-airport). So I thought best to ask around before I do something foolish. Thanks again....
 
Sorry I dont have the FARs in front of me. But did this change? I thought it was over 50 nm for the purposes of a cert or rating
 
There's a tendency to look at this backwards. The definition of cross country in 61.1 doesn't change based upon what certificates or ratings you have. It changes based on what the cross country time is being counted toward.

IOW, cross country time that counts toward most certificates and ratings needs to be >50 NM and include a landing at another location. Cross country time that counts toward an ATP needs to be >50 NM but noes not need to include a landing. Cross country time that you are going to count toward other purposes (such as Part 135 qualification) needs to include a landing at another location, but there is no distance requirement.

So, for example, every flight that you do where you land at another airport, from the time you are a student pilot, is a cross country under the "point-to-point" definition. It's just that those shorter flights don't count toward the cross country requirements for the private, commercial or ATP certificates or the instrument rating. But even those student solo flight to the airport next door to practice takeoffs and landings count toward you Part 135 cross country PIC requirements.

The rest is bookkeeping, not regulation. It's not a matter of changing the use of your cross country column; it's more a matter of having multiple cross country columns or some other way of separating them if you want to keep track of the time for the different purposes. Some pilots who know that they plan on a career simply use an extra empty column in the logbook to track all "point-to-point" cross countries for the earliest days of their training (or go back to add the column when they realize they want to count them). Folks with electronic logs have other good options.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
The rest is bookkeeping, not regulation. It's not a matter of changing the use of your cross country column; it's more a matter of having multiple cross country columns or some other way of separating them if you want to keep track of the time for the different purposes. Some pilots who know that they plan on a career simply use an extra empty column in the logbook to track all "point-to-point" cross countries for the earliest days of their training (or go back to add the column when they realize they want to count them). Folks with electronic logs have other good options.
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Yeah - what he said! Nice summary.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
.....So, for example, every flight that you do where you land at another airport, from the time you are a student pilot, is a cross country under the "point-to-point" definition.........
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Not the XC for ratings but didn't this change a few years ago based on the distance covered? A flight exceeding a certain number of miles (200 I'm thinking) counts a XC even if you return to the same airport? I'm trying to find the reference.
 
If there is a reference it's in the definition of cross country in 61.1. Let us know when you find it (or when you give up looking :) )

The only non-landing definition is for counting toward the ATP - a tip of the hat to allow military aviators who will sometime have a lot of flight time without landing other than their starting point.
 
That's the exception I was thinking about.
So it only allows for the time applied toward the rating? What of a military pilot that already has an ATP? Long XC that begins and ends at the same airport doesn't count as XC?
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
That wasn't meant to be snotty. Just that you can probably copy and paste as well as I can. ;)
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Really? Well I would be glad to copy and paste if the answer to my question were anywhere in this thread.

Never mind, I'll try to find the letter/reference. If I find it, I'll post it here for all.
 
So it only allows for the time applied toward the rating? What of a military pilot that already has an ATP? Long XC that begins and ends at the same airport doesn't count as XC?
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The definition of cross country in 61.1 doesn't change based upon what certificates or ratings you have. It changes based on what the cross country time is being counted toward.
Click to expand...

Reference is there also: 61.1 definitions.

Sorry you don't like that answer.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Reference is there also: 61.1 definitions.

Sorry you don't like that answer.
Click to expand...

Oh, you don't have to be sorry. It was a great answer to a specific question, just not the answer to mine.

Occasionally the same answer serves for more than one question and occasionally different answers solve the same question. This situation is neither. Thanks though.....
 
Alohaskies said:
FAR state something to the effect that XC time can be logged on flights (landing required) 100nm plus in distance if the XC time is used for rating. Though after getting your ATP rating it goes to (airport-airport). Do I make an adjusting entry to reallocate the XC time, or just start from there posting the new method?
Click to expand...

How about this? If you're really interested in logging every bit of cross country time that you can really log then you'll make a couple columns and go back to all your entries from the beginning.

The following applies to airplanes.

For the purposes of getting your private and commercial certificates and your instrument rating you'll keep a column that includes flights greater than 50-nm. (14 CFR 61.1(b)(3)(ii))

For the purposes of getting your ATP certificate add to the above column any flights you've flown greater than 50-nm straight-line distance from the point of departure but didn't land. (14 CFR 61.1(b)(3)(vi))

For the purposes of 121 or 135 operations when they ask you what about your cross-country time, unless otherwise specified, you'll be using a third column that lists all flight time where you departed one airport and landed at another. (14 CFR 61.1(b)(3)(i))

3 columns in the logbook going back to the beginning. After you get your ATP, and you still want to keep track of your XC time, just worry about the 3rd column (airport to airport). Or keep track of that and the 50. Or do whatever you want.

I keep track of all 3, and went back to the beginning. But I'm still a numbers guy, and probably always will be.
 
dustoff17 said:
Oh, you don't have to be sorry. It was a great answer to a specific question, just not the answer to mine.

Occasionally the same answer serves for more than one question and occasionally different answers solve the same question. This situation is neither. Thanks though.....
Click to expand...
Guess I just didn't understand your question. I thought you were asking whether flights with no landing at another airport counts as a cross country when the pilot is a military pilot with an ATP.
 
Wow, I guess my question sparked a good debate; henceforth the reason for joining this site. Whenever I have been stumped I throw it on a "thread" and I get loads of advice.

Christopher
 
dustoff17 said:
That's the exception I was thinking about.
So it only allows for the time applied toward the rating? What of a military pilot that already has an ATP? Long XC that begins and ends at the same airport doesn't count as XC?
Click to expand...

I was at Oshkosh a number of years ago, and listened to Dick Rutan talk about flying the Voyager around the world. He made an interesting point (since the FAA Administrator was standing there) that after flying for 10 days the long way around the world, it wasn't cross-country flight time since he landed at the departure airport.
 
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