Aerobatics

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
Looking for some advice here. Would like to get into aerobatic competition and airshows. I don't really have all the information I need though. I understand how the low level waivers work but I'm not clear on who you go to, to get them? Also any advice on who is best to go to for this type of training? I would really love to get into Sean Tuckers future airshow pilots mentor ship program but I again am not sure how he selects them. A Little about me I am a 20 year college start who will be CFII in the spring. What I would like to do for a career is fly a Mon-Fri part 135 gig and airshows on the side. What I really would like to do is own my one aerobatic flight school if at all possible. Anyone who can give me advice on how I should start this part of my flying I would greatly appreciate it. Or for anyone who is a airshow pilot if you could tell me the steps you had to take and the hurdles you had to overcome.
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
for competition flight and so forth id say first check the International Aerobatic Club ... iac.org and see if theres a chapter near you and contact them, they should be able to get you pointed in the right direction.

DO IT. most fun youll ever have!!
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
TXaviator I am in the process of joining the local chapter. Do you think a Decathalon would be a good first aero plane? I guy at the airport that we keep the cherokee said I could use his Decathalon if I wanted to. It has christen inverted fuel and oil and 180 fuel injected HP. What do you think?
 

USMC-SSGT

Well-Known Member
Depending on where you are from Executive Flyers (Michael Goulian) has a great program which I used to teach at. They use a 2008 Super Decathlon and a 2006 Extra 300. They are a bit pricey but all of their instructors have multiple competitions under their belts as well as close to if not more than 1000 hours of dual given acro/unusual attitudes.

I would ONLY reccomend starting your acro program in a super decathlon or similiar. The decathlon does not have a fast enough roll rate to do maneuvers without intensive stick and rudder work to keep it coordinated and will really teach you the appropriate mechanics of each maneuver as well as the sight pictures youll need along the progression of each maneuver. An extra or pitts or similiar has such a high roll rate that on a slow roll little to no rudder is needed since there is no time for the nose to drop below the horizon and get it off axis. It is a great plane to step up to but not the plane to start in.....and its 400 dollars per hour.

start by reading basic aerobatics by Geza Szuorazy and Michael Goulian as 60% of aerobatics is book work and the mechanics of the manuevers and what is happening at all times. You will also need to be taught (a good school will do this) every possible thing that can go wrong in any maneuver and how to fix it.

Join an IAC club and start talking to the people, you will be competing in no time.
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
Depending on where you are from Executive Flyers (Michael Goulian) has a great program which I used to teach at. They use a 2008 Super Decathlon and a 2006 Extra 300. They are a bit pricey but all of their instructors have multiple competitions under their belts as well as close to if not more than 1000 hours of dual given acro/unusual attitudes.

I would ONLY reccomend starting your acro program in a super decathlon or similiar. The decathlon does not have a fast enough roll rate to do maneuvers without intensive stick and rudder work to keep it coordinated and will really teach you the appropriate mechanics of each maneuver as well as the sight pictures youll need along the progression of each maneuver. An extra or pitts or similiar has such a high roll rate that on a slow roll little to no rudder is needed since there is no time for the nose to drop below the horizon and get it off axis. It is a great plane to step up to but not the plane to start in.....and its 400 dollars per hour.

start by reading basic aerobatics by Geza Szuorazy and Michael Goulian as 60% of aerobatics is book work and the mechanics of the manuevers and what is happening at all times. You will also need to be taught (a good school will do this) every possible thing that can go wrong in any maneuver and how to fix it.

Join an IAC club and start talking to the people, you will be competing in no time.
Exactly.

A Super D is a great plane to start with....and can be competitive in Sportsman against Pitts and Extras anyway!! (see my sig?)

You WILL learn proper inputs and all the mechanics of aerobatic flight in this plane, as it requires them to fly the maneuvers correctly...as opposed to a pitts or extra where you can just flick through things...

PLEASE make sure you have a QUALIFIED instructor, doesn't need to be a world champion, just someone who knows what they are doing, and PLEASE pay close attention when learning upset recoveries, botched maneuvers, as it can save your life someday. I have seen what happens when people do not have adequate emergency maneuver training and botch a relatively simple maneuver... can be fatal.

Don't be shy about joining the nearest IAC club, they will be glad to have you! At the competitions I went to, they always asked if there was any first time competitors and paired them up with an experienced pilot to mentor you through the process of competing, and if they don't ask... pipe up! Someone will be glad to show you how it all works!!

Talking to your nearest chapter is the best start, get out there and start practicing for 2009!!!
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
Oh I will be out there practicing! I know I will find these next few questions out once I join my local chapter but how do you go about getting the low level waivers?
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
Oh I will be out there practicing! I know I will find these next few questions out once I join my local chapter but how do you go about getting the low level waivers?

that i do not know about specifically, since at competitions that is handled by the organizers...
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but as a pilot don't you need a low level waiver and isn't there multiple levels? For example when I talked to a local airshow pilot he informed me that he had a unrestricted level one ground waiver. He said something about you have to pass a flight test with a ACE and the waiver is only good for the airplane that you take the test in. I probably missed some of the information because I was staring at his Pitts imagining me flying it:nana2:
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but as a pilot don't you need a low level waiver and isn't there multiple levels? For example when I talked to a local airshow pilot he informed me that he had a unrestricted level one ground waiver. He said something about you have to pass a flight test with a ACE and the waiver is only good for the airplane that you take the test in. I probably missed some of the information because I was staring at his Pitts imagining me flying it:nana2:
yes that is for airshow flying.

anyone can go out and fly acro above 1500' and away from victor airways :)
 

juskl

Well-Known Member
I just started teaching aerobatics in the Great Lakes biplanes. They are a blast (but definitely cold in the mornings right now). I was able to fly a super decathalon several months back and liked it too.. What ever you do, just go somewhere that has been teaching it for years and knows how to teach it. There are some really good ones out there.

If you want to escape the snow for a while give us a look. www.aerobatics.com . Our name is Chandler Air Service. We are based out of Chandler, Arizona at Chandler Municiple Airport and we have been in business for 28 years. We have 4 Great Lakes biplanes and a Pitts S2C. We also have four Supercubs that we do the initial tailwheel training in. Send me a PM if you want more info, or check out our website and send a request that way. I think you will be pleased........(and warmer).....well after few hours anyway....:)

Justin
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
juskl I would like the warmer weather but I have commitments up here sorry. As far as looking for instruction, my goal is to find a current or former airshow pilot. Reason being my main focus is going to be becoming a airshow pilot. While many think competition aerobatics and airshow aerobatics are the same I refer you to this quote "Airshows are about evoking emotion. People dont come to see you fly they come to see you almost crash. A good aerobatic pilot can make the hardest maneuvers look easy. But a great airshow pilot can make the easiest maneuvers look impossible" So what I am looking for is someone who can not only teach me how to properly and safety executive the maneuvers, but how to be a great showman at the same time. Juskl how did you first get involved in aerobatics? YOu can PM me if you wish to keep it off this forum.
 

WacoFan

Bigly
I have been thinking of developing an unlimited airshow routine in a Model A powered Pietenpol. I have never seen an aerobatic routine in a Pietenpol and I think the world is ready for one.
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
I have been thinking of developing an unlimited airshow routine in a Model A powered Pietenpol. I have never seen an aerobatic routine in a Pietenpol and I think the world is ready for one.

ive seen Unlimited flown very well in a *highly* modified Pitts S1S.... but thats a real stretch.... it wasn't much of a Pitts anymore either.... super sweet hot-rodded ride!!
 

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
As far as hot rod Pitts go which airshow performer do you think has the best? Jim Leroys was pretty sweet but I'd have to go with Skip Stewart now. Hes got 540hp in that thing plus the straight tip symmetrical wings. Seen him do some amazing things with that airplane. To set the record straight before anyone says Sean Tucker, Sean Tuckers airplane while based on a Pitts was built from scratch and therefore is NOT a Pitts.
 

WacoFan

Bigly
ive seen Unlimited flown very well in a *highly* modified Pitts S1S.... but thats a real stretch.... it wasn't much of a Pitts anymore either.... super sweet hot-rodded ride!!
My post was extremely tongue in cheek, mostly to see if anyone know what a Pietenpol was. The Pietenpol, while a delightful airplane, would not be a good acro bird. They were developed as really the first popular homebuilt and people continue to this day building them, because they are fun flyers. Originally powered by a modified Ford Model A engine.

Here is a Model A powered Pietenpol. Notice the radiator - fun, fun airplane. Makes a Cub look like the Concorde.
 
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