Aerobatic training in a G1000 equiped aircraft?

popaviator

Well-Known Member
My company has always insisted on using NAV 2 packaged 172's, there is no regulation that would prohibit the use of a NAV 3 packaged 172's according to the CCAR's. The only explination I got was that it woud damage the g1000 if we performed aerobatic flight. Not really the best answer as to "why", but I'm used to this in China :confused:
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
By aerobatics, I hope your talking about spins. Which is all a c172 can legally do.

It is fun to see the arrows when at extreme pitch attitudes.
 

USMC-SSGT

Well-Known Member
Im very confused. Why would you ever WANT to do aerobatics in a skychicken? Besides not being certified for it, it would be like taking your 1994 geo metro down to the drag track on a friday night to "see what it can do".
 

swisspilot

Well-Known Member
I have done spins, canyon turns at over 90+ deg of bank and Fieselers during a mountain and bush flying course, we used a G1000 equipped C206, the problem is that you will loose your attitude indicator pretty much right away, we had some problems...the GRS 77 stopped working...we also got an Alert message saying that we were using back up GPS data, something to do with the GIA 63, probably due to the off airport landings we did where we hit a bit hard.

I dunno if the plane was mine I wouldn`t do any of this stuff..
 

swisspilot

Well-Known Member
Im very confused. Why would you ever WANT to do aerobatics in a skychicken? Besides not being certified for it, it would be like taking your 1994 geo metro down to the drag track on a friday night to "see what it can do".
if you know what you are doing:


In ZA you do spins and Fieselers for your PPL, they make you do it in anything that has wings..
 

USMC-SSGT

Well-Known Member
Good video and some good flying.

Still does not touch upon even the basic acro maneuvers:

Immelmann
Hammerhead
Loop
Slow roll
Half Cuban
 

swisspilot

Well-Known Member
Good video and some good flying.

Still does not touch upon even the basic acro maneuvers:

Immelmann
Hammerhead
Loop
Slow roll
Half Cuban
Ever flown a glider? at times it`s not how impressive the maneuver is but what you are able to do with the equipment you have and taking the most advantage of physics.

Personally I get more impressed of what an acro glider can do or even a basic citabria, then an over powered extra, pitts....
 

mshunter

Well-Known Member
No problem. I've seen a '62 fast-back 172 do loops, aileron rolls, hammerheads, and hit VNE.
* No it wasn't me, and the pilot no longer is flying
I know it can do it, but how long are the wings going to stay on the thing. It was never desgined to see those kinds of loads. I specifically remember the video of a Partenavia ripping the wings off past the nacelles doing acro. Hell, a DC10 will Split S, it's been done. But you do it to it enough, and it's going to break.


So I stopped the roll at 140 degrees — according to the flight data recorder— and kind of split-S'd it from about 18,000 feet to about 12,000.
The autothrottles were on, with max climb power selected, and as soon as the nose came through I realized I was really ripping. I had to reach over with my left hand, disconnect the autothrottle, sweep them back to idle, reach back and reacquire the yoke. There was a lot of wind noise and I could feel the airplane entering mach tuck — buffeting — and I thought if I don't pull hard enough it's not going to matter, and if I pull too hard it's not going to matter! After I got the nose back near the horizon, I was kicking the rudders back and forth trying to keep him off balance. Fortunately Andy and David were able to subdue him.
http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182918-1.html
 

LatitudeDancer

Well-Known Member
Only thing I'd add with the 'will I damage it' question aside is the G1000s I've flown are real precise but not real accurate at the initial onset of 'firm' maneuvers. I have only been able to come up with it's got to do with the mounting of the AHRS in the aft of the plane. So, in other words, if you pitch up abruptly and the a/c pitches around its center, for a split second the tail can actually go down before up. And if the AHRS is back there, it will show a brief decline in altitude/climb rate even though your back-up, electric 'steam' gauges will show what's really going on (a climb) because they're in the front of the plane and therefore in front of the point of rotation vs. behind it.

So I'd just admire its crazy flags it throws, etc. if you're going to to spins, etc. and personally wouldn't rely on its reliability on a clear air day if doing acro stuff. I've seen this 'phenomenon' screw up something as simple as people's steep turns bad if they're IFR training/focusing on the G1000. Get them to use the backup gauges and they're fine. Otherwise I've seen them freak and input more of the same control, for example, after pulling back on the stick, because when they did, the G1000 said they were going down initially. Therefore they'd pullback more to correct this 'false' reading and all of the sudden (I'm assuming) the tail of the plane/AHRS gets on board with going up and they're like it's going up way fast (to correct/catch up). And we all of the sudden jump outside of PTS limits because of this damn thing. Nit picking.
 

popaviator

Well-Known Member
Has nothing to do with the subject of flying acro in a non approved airframe.
CAAC aerobatics are defined as spins, chandelles, lazy 8's, etc... Not the aerobatic that you're thinking about. I agree it's not really aerobatic flying, but it's what our syllabus says.:confused:
 

Hacker15e

Dunning–Kruger Observer
I specifically remember the video of a Partenavia ripping the wings off past the nacelles doing acro.
The accident report on that one shows that the pilot was WELL exceeding the design load limit.

His wife was narrating the airshow performance, too. Ack. Still makes my stomach turn.
 

mshunter

Well-Known Member
The accident report on that one shows that the pilot was WELL exceeding the design load limit.

His wife was narrating the airshow performance, too. Ack. Still makes my stomach turn.
Yup. And I'd imagine that doing the things that 172 was doing, he was right there next to the limits, if not barely over them. There is a reason why they gave it a "Normal" and "Utility" category, not an "Aerobatic" one.
 
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