Aerial sight seeing

[Pucker Factor]

So I've got a guestion for all you FAR/AIM masters and online attorneys. when would a commercial rated pilot being hired by the public to go up and "take a look around" be considered to be operating as an aerial tour operation? I understand the rules governing Sightseeing operations but don't understand when you would be one. Is it only when you advertise yourself to be such and establish some LOA?

 

[rframe]

So I've got a guestion for all you FAR/AIM masters and online attorneys. when would a commercial rated pilot being hired by the public to go up and "take a look around" be considered to be operating as an aerial tour operation?

If someone pays you for a scenic flight/ride you need to be operating under an LOA. Simple as that. Some FBO's sneak around this calling it an "instructional flight"... but you better have a logbook and the customer better be willing to agree that's what it is.

I understand the rules governing Sightseeing operations but don't understand when you would be one. Is it only when you advertise yourself to be such and establish some LOA?

As soon as someone pays you for a scenic flight.

You only need to be certificated as a Commercial pilot to execute a local scenic flight, but the operation still needs to be under an LOA.

To get one, you need to submit a letter of request/intent to your local FSDO and that'll get the ball rolling. They might do a maintenance review of the aircraft you'll use and they'll require a drug testing program to be in place. The drug testing program is usually the main hurdle, assuming you have good maintenance documentation and 100-hour inspections.

Also, on the practical side, your insurance costs are going to go up for a commercial passenger-carrying operation.

To get to what is usually the motivation of your question: No you cannot as a commercial pilot go rent the FBO's Skyhawk and give people rides and charge them for it.

 

[Pucker Factor]

Makes sense to me.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

If someone pays you for a scenic flight/ride you need to be operating under an LOA. Simple as that. Some FBO's sneak around this calling it an "instructional flight"... but you better have a logbook and the customer better be willing to agree that's what it is.

Well, it isn't as simple as that. It also depends on the category and class of aircraft being operated, refer to part 119. Balloons & gliders are generally okay without any sort of LOA, helo's too in some cases. You can also just call and ask the FSDO case by case in advance, good chance they will be okay with it.

I do a lot of intro flights. Many people ask that it be with an instructor, which does sort of imply instruction is taking place. And I've never heard of the FAA having a problem with introductory flights and introductory lessons. Those were lesson #1 for everyone at some point You gotta start somewhere. I didn't have a logbook for my first few lessons...

 

[rframe]

True enough regarding balloons and helicopters, I dont know anything about gliders. What I stated above definitely applies with my FSDO, as I've talked to them about it, and they said it's a no-go for any airplane "rides" without an LOA.

I keep a few of these paper starter logbooks in my kit and every intro flight gets one. Nice keepsake for them, covers me as having given dual because the student logs it and I tell them it officially counts toward their pilot certificate requirements, which they usually think is pretty awesome. Costs me $1.50 wholesale.

 

[Bernoulli Fan]

I keep a few of these paper starter logbooks in my kit and every intro flight gets one. Nice keepsake for them, covers me as having given dual because the student logs it and I tell them it officially counts toward their pilot certificate requirements, which they usually think is pretty awesome. Costs me $1.50 wholesale.

Hell, $1.50 was 10% of my after-tax earnings from an intro flight when I was CFIing just a few years ago. No way I could afford that!

 

[rframe]

Hell, $1.50 was 10% of my after-tax earnings from an intro flight when I was CFIing just a few years ago. No way I could afford that!

LOL - Business 101: Purchase at $1.50 wholesale, sell at $3 resale = 100% profit margin on a few pieces of paper and I just gave you a 10% pay raise... you owe me a Coke.

 

[Inverted25]

LOL - Business 101: Purchase at $1.50 wholesale, sell at $3 resale = 100% profit margin on a few pieces of paper and I just gave you a 10% pay raise... you owe me a Coke.

You were obviously sleeping in business class. The formula for profit is retail - wholesale= profit (dollars) / retail= Profit percentage. So in your example the gross profit is 50% you now owe me a coke

 

[Bernoulli Fan]

Who has this much coke to give away?!

 

[Fly_Unity]

I didn't have a logbook for my first few lessons...

drunkenbeagle has done it, therefore its legal folks...

 

[CharlieRomeo]

There is an instructor at the airport out of which I fly that takes farmers up in the rental plane to look at their crops. In the past I told him he may want to look into getting an LOA. I told him once and left him alone; I'm not interested in policing someone else's operation. He was not aware of this fairly recent regulation change, but it didn't seem to me like he was going to give it much thought. Maybe that's aerial survey instead?

 

[Fly_Unity]

There is an instructor at the airport out of which I fly that takes farmers up in the rental plane to look at their crops. In the past I told him he may want to look into getting an LOA. I told him once and left him alone; I'm not interested in policing someone else's operation. He was not aware of this fairly recent regulation change, but it didn't seem to me like he was going to give it much thought. Maybe that's aerial survey instead?

According to the Denver FSDO, If you have a passenger, its not aerial surveying. Its pilot services for a guy who is doing the surveying. I checked into it when I had a guy wanting to look for his cows. My conclusion from the FSDO is that we needed to be 135, or do it solo.

Of course if you ask 5 different FSDO's, you will get 5 different answers.

 

[CharlieRomeo]

According to the Denver FSDO, If you have a passenger, its not aerial surveying. Its pilot services for a guy who is doing the surveying. I checked into it when I had a guy wanting to look for his cows. My conclusion from the FSDO is that we needed to be 135, or do it solo.

Of course if you ask 5 different FSDO's, you will get 5 different answers.

I agree that it's probably not really aerial survey. I told the CFI what I thought, and it's in his court now. If I were him, I would contact our FSDO and get their take.