c172captain
Well-Known Member
How do you guys overcome wake turbulence issues? As far as I can tell you are behind and below the aircraft delivering fuel which would put you right in its wake turbulence.
Aerial refueling
- Thread starter c172captain
- Start date
You're ahead of the wake turbulence. You plow through it to get into position and don't feel anything while in position.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Yeah, but you run the risk of flying through someone's jet wash and ending up in a flat spin... which could cost you your best friend and your chance at the Top Gun trophy.
Josh7
Well-Known Member
:yup:
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
I've always wondered about that.... that looks hard. I can barely rub my head and pat my belly at the same time... let alone try an aerial refueling with a helo. You guys do those at night with NVGs?
Yes we do. Smooth air is a challenge enough. Add in bad WX, turbulance, and a dinged-up receiver basket, and it can get interesting quick. Think the movie The Perfect Storm.
Doing boom AR in the fighters was challenging in the WX and I've had my share of close calls there (one that I wrote about here on JC); but at least I only had to hold position to allow the boom operator to plug me. Me having to do the plug myself with all the above factors while bouncing in the C-130s wake AND remain plugged and within the confines of the refueling range up/down, fore/aft, side/side; takes a good amount more of skill.
ian
Well-Known Member
yep.
you have to be very smooth when flying in contact with the tanker flying autopilot off, because what we do pushes their plane around
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
...followed by a "rendezvous" with a couple dudes and then back the love boat with 5000 dudes for 6 months....
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
The T-tail aircraft also have a pitch-down moment somewhere between the contact and pre-contact positions. The increased airflow over the horizontal stabilizer causes the pitch-down whereas the updraft of airflow over the airlifter's fuselage can move the tanker.
fish314
Well-Known Member
That's true. As the receiver moves in, especially with larger receivers, it changes the downwash going over the tail. Basically it changes your trim setting and makes the nose heavy. Then, as he moves in the envelope, the whole boom acts as a giant rudder and speedbrake and that get's coupled with the changing downwash thing... so basically every time he moves, I can feel it in the yoke (autopilot off) and I have to put in a minor input to keep the attitude of the aircraft the same. The trick is to put the input in as smooth as you can. Otherwise, you don't force the receiver to react to something you put in and change what he's doing, which then forces you to put in another input because he's changed, etc., etc.
You actually get the same thing with a small receiver, too. For example, I can feel where an F-15 is in the envelope (or at least, I can feel it if he moves around a whole lot). But the severity is MUCH less. The worst is probably the B-2... they're worse than a C-5 or a C-17. Something to do with their shape, I think.
Either way, though, the front end of the operation is easier than the job the receiver does (boom OR probe/drogue). Especially with the autopilot on!
Yes, generally speaking. Although its challenging itself too.
BTpilot
Living the...dream?
We boomers have benefit from the boom.. Its honestly something you get the hang of and the pilots do too. Especially viper guys. They just get stabilized after precontact, park themselves right underneath and let me guide her in, until I call contact. Then they can move a bit.. It's the new viper pilots at Luke and out of the 162nd ANG unit that have trouble calling precontact after the ARIP and then take forever to get stable. It's definitely a learning experience for us all at first.
The eagle and mudhen drivers got it easy. They help out quite a bit because its right over their shoulder
Can't say I've had too much experience with heavies, but I sure know that they take MARSA pretty serious.
fish314
Well-Known Member
We boomers have benefit from the boom.. Its honestly something you get the hang of and the pilots do too. Especially viper guys. They just get stabilized after precontact, park themselves right underneath and let me guide her in, until I call contact. Then they can move a bit.. It's the new viper pilots at Luke and out of the 162nd ANG unit that have trouble calling precontact after the ARIP and then take forever to get stable. It's definitely a learning experience for us all at first.
The eagle and mudhen drivers got it easy. They help out quite a bit because its right over their shoulder
You must be a baby boom? Less than a year out of Altus?
The eagle and mudhen drivers got it easy. They help out quite a bit because its right over their shoulder
A-10 was a blessing and a curse, with the UARRSI located on the nose in front of the canopy. On the plus side, I can see pretty well for AR, but every now and again Id get the timid boomer who won't plug me even when Im in contact at 2 feet. End up making a self-service plug. On the downside, if there's a leak in the boom knuckle on the end, the fuel spray washes all over the canopy, making the director lights impossible to see (they're somewhat dim anyways on the KC-135, bright as heck on the KC-10), and the AR references now become placing the fuzzy and hard to see #2 and #3 engines of the tanker at the top edges of my front canopy.
F-4, F-117 was easy....just part it in contact and follow the director lights. Everything else is full service.
BTpilot
Living the...dream?
Yeah, I'll admit it. I've sprayed a hog's canopy before. Also have tapped his canopy with it.. Let's just say he was NOT happy. But I've since figured it out and seen tendencies for different airplanes..
hahah how'd you guess?
about a year and a half.