Aer Lingus pilots paid €300,000($441,000)
- Thread starter Trip7
- Start date
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
You can't deny the "good" commuters have shed flying (if they are lucky and don't go completely out of business) and the less expensive ones get awarded the growth. With that history you will never see wages being raised considerably. That's life. You escaped it by jumping in line, kind of like the drivers who knowingly zoom ahead in a lane that is closed up ahead. Meanwhile those that "did the right thing" get screwed. Story of the world...
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Again, you only prove my point. If other carriers would have followed suit after Comair's success, then what you speak of would never have happened. Instead, people like you decided that getting "too expensive" was risky, so they all undercut the pilots that had a backbone at Comair. It's time for you and every other regional pilot to step up and shoulder some risk so that you can move your profession forward. Otherwise, you'll still be stuck at 1970s era wages 30 years from now.
I understand it's your opinion, I'm just curious how it has anything to do with regulation.
ILS approaches are from the CAB/pre-deregulation era, but I'm not sure I want to bust out a CAT-IIIC autoland with a GPS receiver.
Most professions have some sort of "raise" for years of service with the company.
Longevity and loyalty pays, just like non-rev benefits.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Didn't ASA and XJT just get more growth while places like Mesa, Pinnacle and TSA got left in the dust? Pinnacle's actually SHRUNK since I got here in 06. Mesa's about to go under, too. I'd hardly say the less expensive ones are getting the growth now. Maybe in the last cycle.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I'm not privy to the new ASA contract but according to our CEO XJT actually bid at rates below their costs in order to defray some of the costs of parking the planes. Don't confuse this with winning a true RFP. Look what the commuters are having to do these days, they are having to buy their way in or do at risk flying just to have something to do with their planes.
If the economists are correct in saying this will pretty much be a flat lined "recovery" we will all be in a world of hurt at the commuter level.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
With regulation airline jobs were stable and long term employment was practically assured.
Most companies give a COLA raise. If you can negotiate a higher salary based upon performance or sales you get a raise. Most do not offer a salary ladder that progressively grows higher. You must be thinking about government jobs or the military. Again, those are pretty much guaranteed jobs.
FXMXC
Well-Known Member
Yep experience does have value too bad managements do not value it especially in maintenance. I don't know about anyone else but it took me 18 months to get an A@P then years and years of working on airliners just to get semi competant. Don't forget line MX usually has multiple aircraft he/she has to work in a typical day. Whereas the pilot just has his one type at a time. Also when your flight is finished your responsibility is finished on that a/c but mine continues on with the aircraft after I put my signature on it. It's too bad the pilot group hasn't fought MX outsourcing along side the mechanics. Heck the pilot MEC at UAL endorsed it and of course the NW pilots didn't say much when their MX were tossed to the street. You guys have to fly the airplanes do you even care who works on them? Or do you put your trust in your management and the FAA?. Sorry to rant just putting a non-pilot prospective in on ATN pilots prospective.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm not familiar with the UAL mx issues, but I can tell you that the mechanics at NWA got what was coming to them.
Long before the AMFA strike at NWA, the NWA MEC came to all union employee groups at NWA to build a labor coalition. Every employee group except AMFA (the mechanics) agreed to join forces. What did AMFA say? This is a direct quote: "We don't need the help of a bunch of bug smashers."
Don't want the help? Fine, you won't get it.
Long before the AMFA strike at NWA, the NWA MEC came to all union employee groups at NWA to build a labor coalition. Every employee group except AMFA (the mechanics) agreed to join forces. What did AMFA say? This is a direct quote: "We don't need the help of a bunch of bug smashers."
Don't want the help? Fine, you won't get it.
FXMXC
Well-Known Member
First I wan't to say this is off topic..Sorry for that. But you should also know I am a former 20 yr NWA mechanic now currently a FedEx Maintenance Controller. I will admit OV Del Femine was totally arrogant and I had issues with how our new union was conducting business. But I will never regret leaving our former union the IAM. Myself and a lot of other mechanics goal was to have a craft union that addressed our issues. The IAM totally ignored issues we had over the years. Now before you say anything the pilots have their own union ALPA. The F/A's have their own union but when we tried to seperate everyone had issues with it why? Pilots and F/A's have their own union but mechanics can't? So we were blocked and it took years to break away from the IAM with all the dirty tricks they pulled including the NMB which was ripe with former IAM officials. When we finally got our first contract NW did most all their MX in house so we had the upper hand. We finally raised the bar for all MX in the entire industry. But NW had decided that AMFA had to go ( I think because they knew the merger was going to happen) they embarked on an ambitious plan to break the union. They spent millions and over 2 yrs to train and recruit replacements. The final contract offer was a 53 percent manpower reduction and a 23 percent paycut for those who remained. I was in the 53 percent to be cut so going on strike was a no brainer for me I was out of a job no matter what. Bottom line yeah a lot of mistakes were made by AMFA. There was a lot of arrogance but if you had walked in our shoes you might have understood it. How would you feel if you were forced to be in a flight attandant union with no way out and they were the majority so your issues were drowned out and your pay was closely paired with an F/A? Well bottom line is that NW is the master of divide and conquer. They pulled out the stops to break us and held us up as an example to the other work groups so they could slash their pay which they did. I know after we were gone and NW gutted the other groups a lot were sorry they didn't support us. But hey they are all one family now and we will see what happens under the new Delta. Of course I work for a new family now and while I hate starting over I actually make more money than I ever did at NW So I guess they did me a favor. By the way I know you fly for AirTran I fly them all the time always had a nice experience.
That is incidental. Skywest paid UA 60 or 80 million can't remember and magically ASA got the flying. Expressjet while a very good company had their interests too like putting dozens of idling airplanes to work. We will see what these companies offer at the negotiating tables in the next contract to remain "competitive", that is the true measure of a non bottom feeder.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The problem, in my opinion, was that AMFA's leadership was very divisive. It seemed that AMFA had an elitist attitude that they didn't need the help of anyone, and they weren't going to give anyone any help. In addition, AMFA was not a member of the AFL-CIO.
FXMXC
Well-Known Member
Well most of that was that was the animosity that exsisted between the mechanics and the iam and that the iam represented a majority of employees at NW. The iam pulled so many dirty tricks when we tried to seperate that it made the atmosphere poisonous. Also not being a member of the AFL-CIO should have NOTHING to do with it. There are plenty of independant unions who do not belong as a matter of fact the Teamsters are no longer AFL-CIO.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Teamsters are not because of nice chunk of change they still owe the AFL-CIO in past due payments they failed to make. Might want to ask where and for what that money went and what for.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I disagree. Either you're a part of the labor movement, or you're not.
One of the many reasons I don't respect the IBT.
FXMXC
Well-Known Member
You can be a part of the labor movement without being in the AFL-CIO. Isn't the APA American Airlines pilot union not a part of the AFL-CIO? What about the UPS and SWA independant unions? My real problem is that no matter how you feel about a particular union if that union has a legal picket line and you perform their work that is STRUCK work and you are a scab if you perform it which is exactly what the IAM did to us. That is NOT being a productive part of the labor movement. Thanks to them it began a race to the bottom again for the mechanics after the gains we made under AMFA. Most all the airlines slashed the pay of the mechanics and others..Thankfully SWA, UPS, And FedEx did not. I enjoy a wage that was fought for and won by the former NWA mechanics. Too bad current NWA mechanics themselves don't enjoy it then again they are scabs so they deserve what they get.
FXMXC
Well-Known Member
Doesn't surprise me the Teamsters are the bottom of the barrel which is why I don't want to see them at FedEx.
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surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I'd imagine the AFL-CIO would welcome them back into the fold if they simply paid the couple million that is owed to them.
Make right, right.
You're an A&P over at FedEx then huh?
Welcome to JC, nice to have some new(er) perspectives.
