Advice on jumping ship....

turbomax97

What can brown do for you?
I currently work for a charter company that is DOA but still am getting a paycheck. I'm interviewing to work for a competitor that is flying a little more than us - maybe 20 - 30 hrs a month but I'd be on the road 20 - 25 days a month.

I'm still in the pool at Skywest and the new prospect would want a training contract of 18 months - it could be less since I'm already typed but there will be some form of contract. The hiring is based off the assumption that freight will be picking up but if it doesn't, and I get furloughed - I can't even pickup unemployment. The place I'm at now I've been here longer than 6 mos so I'd be able to eat at least.

For what it's worth, I'm at the top of the pool so if Skywest runs a new hire class, I'd be in it I think...:confused:
 
I'd be SERIOUSLY surprised if Skywest hired in 18 months. Not saying it COULDN'T happen, but I'd be surprised.
 
I'd be SERIOUSLY surprised if Skywest hired in 18 months. Not saying it COULDN'T happen, but I'd be surprised.

you never know, with the new rest rules and duty rigs that were being discussed in another thread, anything is possible. I wouldn't want to go anyplace that had me locked into them, but could furlough me at anytime with no unemployment.
 
I currently work for a charter company that is DOA but still am getting a paycheck. I'm interviewing to work for a competitor that is flying a little more than us - maybe 20 - 30 hrs a month but I'd be on the road 20 - 25 days a month.

I'm still in the pool at Skywest and the new prospect would want a training contract of 18 months - it could be less since I'm already typed but there will be some form of contract. The hiring is based off the assumption that freight will be picking up but if it doesn't, and I get furloughed - I can't even pickup unemployment. The place I'm at now I've been here longer than 6 mos so I'd be able to eat at least.

For what it's worth, I'm at the top of the pool so if Skywest runs a new hire class, I'd be in it I think...:confused:

Hi there. I'm a relatively young guy, but in my few years I've learned to never trust anyone but yourself in making a judgement call. Only you know whats best for you. It's not a bad idea to get advice, but what I would do is ask questions without giving away what your really trying to get at. You want people to tell you what you want to hear without giving their personal spin on it.

If you're trying to get into Skywest, and you ask someone like me(6th yr RJ CA) I'm going to tell you what I think from my perspective. It might not be a good perspective for you. So I wouldn't listen to me. What I could tell you is whats going on here right now.

First off we have no movement. When we do, it will only be to get the senior guys where they want to be first. The thing you have to think about is SKYW has a lot of senior FO's that choose not to upgrade(this is beyond me) for QOL. More importantly, theres guys that are 100-300 out of 3000 on the seniority list that want the jet now. Those guys will go first, then the sr FO's, then the list goes on and on.

Hypothetically, if you were to count all these guys, thats probably 600-800 pilots that want the upgrade and can hold it. Typically, SKYW would run classes of 20-25 in a upgrade class. The 70 guys a class stuff that was going on two years ago will probably never happen again. So if you divide 700(avg of 600-800) by 23, thats 30 months to upgrade. 30 months is still not an accurate number because that is assuming they will run upgrade classes every month for 30 months? Probably not. It might take 60 months, it might take 10 months. As Doug, and many others on this forum say, you just can't predict this stuff and you never know.

I'm sorry if this message isn't what you wanted to hear. I just wanted you to know what is waiting for you so your not dissappointed. Should you quit? heck no. you just don't know whats going to happen. If its your dream, follow it.

Also, if you want to get to the majors Skywest is one of the top regional carriers that you could be "stuck" at while you do your time. It could always be better, but its a good place to start.

I can work anywhere from 10 days per month to 20 days per month if I choose. I can make anywhere from $65,000 to $100,000 this year, depending on how hard I want to work. I can drop just about any day that I want one way or another, we have a good chief pilot in ORD, (I think he backs the pilots which is rare these days) and we have a mgmt team that is looking for long term success not short term gains like some other carriers out there. While that may hurt your chances of growth, it will give you more stability. Something that you will appreciate in times like this.

My roommate is a EMB-120 Captain and is on long call reserve. He has 12 hours to report to base. He's not tied to the phone anymore. We woke up this morning, went on a two hour bike ride to Newport Beach, had coffee and a bagel, and came back home. He got called on our way back. He didn't have to return the call for an hour. When he did, they told him he has to do a repo flight tomorrow and thats it. Pretty easy job if you ask me. He rarely gets called. He's using his extra time to be a consultant for a private company. Since his flying job is flexible, his other job pays his rent and car payment. I have started my own business as well. While you are waiting your time, I would not just sit back and wait. Find other avenues to further your reach. I hope this doesn't sound like a lecture. My only intent is to give you advice from my learnings. I hope this helps.

If you have any questions, PM me. :)
 
Never take a hypothetical job. Hypothetically you may get a pay check. Go for the new employer. Its kind of hard for skywest to get new flying with every one downsizing.
 
First, obviously try to negotiate the training contract term down, that will obviously get you more flexibility. We are a little fat right now here at SkyWest, but we could be very overstaffed come fall. Without any big news there is no need to hire until March at the earliest.

Why can't you collect unemployment if you are unemployed?

What are your ultimate carrier goals?

What is the situation with your current employer? (I thought DOA was dead on arrival... does it stand for something else?)
 
First, obviously try to negotiate the training contract term down, that will obviously get you more flexibility. We are a little fat right now here at SkyWest, but we could be very overstaffed come fall. Without any big news there is no need to hire until March at the earliest.

Why can't you collect unemployment if you are unemployed?

What are your ultimate carrier goals?

What is the situation with your current employer? (I thought DOA was dead on arrival... does it stand for something else?)


There is no training contract per our interview/ meeting today.

In TX from what I understand you have to be employed for 6 months with the employer prior to being eligible for unemployment bennies.

I'm 99 percent sure I'm going to ride out this econ. with my current employer. I'm next in line to upgrade pending a few vital decisions that happen this week. If I switch companies that upgrade wouldnt be for at least 4-5 years pending serious industry movement.

Those guys are only flying 30 hours on average and I don't see it as a wise decision to move for only that flight time considering that I'd be on the road about 25 days a month.


Long term career goals?

- A stable income - part of the reason I interviewed and got into Skywest's pool is that their past performance is a good indicator of a place I wouldn't mind being stuck at, if it's gonna be a regional(imho).

- I want to do long haul internashunal flying e.g. Dougie style regardless of how cliche it may be. I'm not sure if that involves a US legacy carrier or a Contract gig in Asia just yet, but it's what I strive for and have networked towards for the last several years.

- Like an older pilot bud of mine said, "How many days off and how much does it pay?" - that about sums it up. :pirate:
 
If you're deadset on Skywest you need to make yourself available for the class if called. If you are willing to forgo Skywest in favor of another regional or company, take the job. You NEVER know what is going to happen. Don't take that as a veiled suggestion of growth either, because it may never happen.
 
Take this job. I know on demand freight is a shaky industry right now but really if you can find a way to avoid the regionals then do it.

It's funny, we both stayed a flight instructor too long. :)

or maybe I didn't stay a flight instructor long enough. But a year and a half at Mesa airlines makes me want to avoid another (regional) airline job if I can.
 
Take this job. I know on demand freight is a shaky industry right now but really if you can find a way to avoid the regionals then do it.

It's funny, we both stayed a flight instructor too long. :)

or maybe I didn't stay a flight instructor long enough. But a year and a half at Mesa airlines makes me want to avoid another (regional) airline job if I can.

I don't know that we instructed too long. It was valuable experience and even if we instructed only half as long as we did, we would likely be furloughed anyway.

FWIW I turned down the job. I'm getting a paycheck where I'm at right now, next in line to upgrade, and things are a changing... I'll post specifics when the official legal junk is done and over with.
 
Never lateral.

One of my primary reasons not to. I figure an additional 100 hour of flight time through this year isn't worth me sitting in a hotel 20 days a month, away from my wife, nor is starting at the bottem of another seniority list.
 
Hi there. I'm a relatively young guy, but in my few years I've learned to never trust anyone but yourself in making a judgement call. Only you know whats best for you. It's not a bad idea to get advice, but what I would do is ask questions without giving away what your really trying to get at. You want people to tell you what you want to hear without giving their personal spin on it.

If you're trying to get into Skywest, and you ask someone like me(6th yr RJ CA) I'm going to tell you what I think from my perspective. It might not be a good perspective for you. So I wouldn't listen to me. What I could tell you is whats going on here right now.

First off we have no movement. When we do, it will only be to get the senior guys where they want to be first. The thing you have to think about is SKYW has a lot of senior FO's that choose not to upgrade(this is beyond me) for QOL. More importantly, theres guys that are 100-300 out of 3000 on the seniority list that want the jet now. Those guys will go first, then the sr FO's, then the list goes on and on.

Hypothetically, if you were to count all these guys, thats probably 600-800 pilots that want the upgrade and can hold it. Typically, SKYW would run classes of 20-25 in a upgrade class. The 70 guys a class stuff that was going on two years ago will probably never happen again. So if you divide 700(avg of 600-800) by 23, thats 30 months to upgrade. 30 months is still not an accurate number because that is assuming they will run upgrade classes every month for 30 months? Probably not. It might take 60 months, it might take 10 months. As Doug, and many others on this forum say, you just can't predict this stuff and you never know.

I'm sorry if this message isn't what you wanted to hear. I just wanted you to know what is waiting for you so your not dissappointed. Should you quit? heck no. you just don't know whats going to happen. If its your dream, follow it.

Also, if you want to get to the majors Skywest is one of the top regional carriers that you could be "stuck" at while you do your time. It could always be better, but its a good place to start.

I can work anywhere from 10 days per month to 20 days per month if I choose. I can make anywhere from $65,000 to $100,000 this year, depending on how hard I want to work. I can drop just about any day that I want one way or another, we have a good chief pilot in ORD, (I think he backs the pilots which is rare these days) and we have a mgmt team that is looking for long term success not short term gains like some other carriers out there. While that may hurt your chances of growth, it will give you more stability. Something that you will appreciate in times like this.

My roommate is a EMB-120 Captain and is on long call reserve. He has 12 hours to report to base. He's not tied to the phone anymore. We woke up this morning, went on a two hour bike ride to Newport Beach, had coffee and a bagel, and came back home. He got called on our way back. He didn't have to return the call for an hour. When he did, they told him he has to do a repo flight tomorrow and thats it. Pretty easy job if you ask me. He rarely gets called. He's using his extra time to be a consultant for a private company. Since his flying job is flexible, his other job pays his rent and car payment. I have started my own business as well. While you are waiting your time, I would not just sit back and wait. Find other avenues to further your reach. I hope this doesn't sound like a lecture. My only intent is to give you advice from my learnings. I hope this helps.

If you have any questions, PM me. :)

One of the best one I've read thus far.
 
Am I filling in the blanks correctly in reading that you're about to upgrade on a turbine aircraft, have a type rating, but are willing to leave if a regional airline calls you to be a furlough-fodder gear swinger? Wh...wh...why?
 
Am I filling in the blanks correctly in reading that you're about to upgrade on a turbine aircraft, have a type rating, but are willing to leave if a regional airline calls you to be a furlough-fodder gear swinger? Wh...wh...why?

Hahaha I knew I'd hear it about that! Primarily because the company has been mismanaged and will continue to be - we're still bankrupt - and I don't see the company existing too long. Most importantly - the ad hoc charter biz doesn't look too sustainable and I've gotta feed my fam. If things turn around and we stay busy and steady then of course I won't be a regional puke =D
 
HI've gotta feed my fam.

How do you expect to do that? If you do manage to get hired by Skywest, after 6 months or so of 20k/year salary, you would probably be furloughed anyways. If things go south where you are now, you may be better off working at Home Depot or something. At least you would be able to spend time with the fam and make 20k/year.
 
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