Advice..Keep Instructing or Cape Air?

Agreed, and I'm not anti-121. I might be joining you clowns this summer! :)

I am a bit anti-"GO GO GO" when someone expresses an interest to explore some other kinds of flying before "settling" though. It's up to the OP of course and I think there's plenty of advice from both sides for them to make a decision.
I'd like to know what, precisely, people think they're "settling" for when they go to work for an airline.

I have loads of fun at work, even if things are "routine."
 
I'd like to know what, precisely, people think they're "settling" for when they go to work for an airline.

I have loads of fun at work, even if things are "routine."
Settling down. Chasing adventure can also involve moving frequently or not laying roots in a particular place in preparation for a possible move.
 
As it was pointed out earlier I probably shouldn't be worrying about it before I get an offer. Kind of moot at this point. It would be an easy decision if I were 23 not 33.
I want to do something different and challenge and develop my ability as a pilot which makes something like Cape sound awesome but don't want to miss out on getting in earlier to the 121 circus since it has great career potential. Would a year make that big of a difference? Maybe, maybe not. Hell who knows what is even going to happen to some of the regionals in the near future at the rate they are going.
I have been following this site for nearly a decade and if anything I should have learned by now that attempting to peer into a "crystal ball" when it comes to career decisions is ridiculous and impossible.
You all make great points and I really appreciate the insight.
 
I am sitting on 1k total time and mulling around the idea of putting in an application for Cap Air. I am currently instructing and things have definitely slowed down but hopefully that shouldn't last long. If things pick back up I could hit 1500hrs by Sep/Oct.
Cape Air seems like a great place to work and I would love the opportunity to work there. I honestly don't know if I should continue slugging it out instructing or push off going to the regionals for another 16 months by going over to Cape Air.
I want a new challenge and like the kind of experience I could get at Cape but would hate to make a move that could hurt an airline career (seniority is everything etc).
At the end of the day it is my decision to make and any insight from those of you that have been around for a while would be greatly appreciated.

In your case, you are probably better off just going to a regional airline. One, unless you get into the JetBlue Gateway program, no major/legacy airline will hire straight from Cape Air (unless you are VERY lucky - but nearly all of them have a turbine time requirement). I guess there is the ATR in Guam, but what are your chances of getting that and do you really want to go that far? Two, since you're going to have to build turbine time anyway, might as well choose the regionals. Pick the one that has the most movement from what you can see. IMO, today those carriers would be PSA with their new jet deliveries and Compass with their Delta flow ups. You are 100% seniority is everything. Why make two moves when you can just make one? Your goal should be to get to where you want in the end in the shortest amount of time at the regional level. Remember, every year you save now to get to that major equates to an additional extra year as legacy Captain ~ $200k salary in your years prior to retirement. Nearly all of that involves timing and luck, but the best you can do is start at it right away. If you do Cape Air, what do you envision doing then? Are you going to a regional? If so, then why not just start at the regional. From my personal story, had I started just three months later at my regional, I wouldn't be where I am today.
 
Not to discount the above because it is good advice... But I wouldn't choose a regional based on upgrade or "flow up". That can all change overnight. Go somewhere that a.) let's you livenin base... Or b.) only has a one leg commute. I have a few friends who went to GoJet a few years ago when it was the "fast upgrade" regional and they thought they would get to a legacy faster. They are all still sitting in the right seat making sub-par pay.
 
Not to discount the above because it is good advice... But I wouldn't choose a regional based on upgrade or "flow up". That can all change overnight. Go somewhere that a.) let's you livenin base... Or b.) only has a one leg commute. I have a few friends who went to GoJet a few years ago when it was the "fast upgrade" regional and they thought they would get to a legacy faster. They are all still sitting in the right seat making sub-par pay.

But lets be honest, you can't choose ones where you know are downgrading fleets, and losing flying from their mainline partners, or have no future plans. For example, Endeavor Air (downsizing to 81 planes), Eagle/Envoy (apparently gonna lose a bunch of 37 and 44 seat RJs), and original XJT (50 seater only fleet and a huge upgrade time as it is). As for your GoJet comments, APC shows their most junior CA was hired 2012. So when you say "couple years ago" it couldn't be that long ago. I do know this, had I gone to GoJets instead of VX when they called, I'd be a CA at GoJets right now.
 
In your case, you are probably better off just going to a regional airline. One, unless you get into the JetBlue Gateway program, no major/legacy airline will hire straight from Cape Air (unless you are VERY lucky - but nearly all of them have a turbine time requirement). I guess there is the ATR in Guam, but what are your chances of getting that and do you really want to go that far? Two, since you're going to have to build turbine time anyway, might as well choose the regionals. Pick the one that has the most movement from what you can see. IMO, today those carriers would be PSA with their new jet deliveries and Compass with their Delta flow ups. You are 100% seniority is everything. Why make two moves when you can just make one? Your goal should be to get to where you want in the end in the shortest amount of time at the regional level. Remember, every year you save now to get to that major equates to an additional extra year as legacy Captain ~ $200k salary in your years prior to retirement. Nearly all of that involves timing and luck, but the best you can do is start at it right away. If you do Cape Air, what do you envision doing then? Are you going to a regional? If so, then why not just start at the regional. From my personal story, had I started just three months later at my regional, I wouldn't be where I am today.


The ATR in guam when I was there was very junior....I could've gotten it as a new hire.

That being said. The ATR is 121, so the 1500 hour rule applies making this guy unable to do that anyway.

Lastly, the Jetblue thing you don't just "get in to" its through a couple college programs and I think sends you through XJT after a certain amount of time at Cape.

I don't remember reading how much time this guy was getting CFIing. Is it possible to bang out 100 hours a month? Why not just work hard for the next few months to get to 1500. If you are only getting 50, or less hours a month the one year deal at Cape may be worth it.
 
Lastly, the Jetblue thing you don't just "get in to" its through a couple college programs and I think sends you through XJT after a certain amount of time at Cape.

UND, ERAU, JU, Auburn, and InterAmerican University.

The XJT thing is optional.
 
As it was pointed out earlier I probably shouldn't be worrying about it before I get an offer. Kind of moot at this point. It would be an easy decision if I were 23 not 33.
I want to do something different and challenge and develop my ability as a pilot which makes something like Cape sound awesome but don't want to miss out on getting in earlier to the 121 circus since it has great career potential. Would a year make that big of a difference? Maybe, maybe not. Hell who knows what is even going to happen to some of the regionals in the near future at the rate they are going.
I have been following this site for nearly a decade and if anything I should have learned by now that attempting to peer into a "crystal ball" when it comes to career decisions is ridiculous and impossible.
You all make great points and I really appreciate the insight.

At 33, I was at my 2nd airline, 2 years in, after 9 years at the first. I wasn't the only one either. I was pretty late in moving on as well. Lots of colleagues left in their mid- to late- 20's to legacies and very good other airlines as well.

Just food for thought.

As @dasleben said, seniority is king in 121. At times, I wish I was more career focused than I was. No regrets, but the wallowing path and a couple stories don't help retirement and bank accounts or days off.
 
But lets be honest, you can't choose ones where you know are downgrading fleets, and losing flying from their mainline partners, or have no future plans. For example, Endeavor Air (downsizing to 81 planes), Eagle/Envoy (apparently gonna lose a bunch of 37 and 44 seat RJs), and original XJT (50 seater only fleet and a huge upgrade time as it is). As for your GoJet comments, APC shows their most junior CA was hired 2012. So when you say "couple years ago" it couldn't be that long ago. I do know this, had I gone to GoJets instead of VX when they called, I'd be a CA at GoJets right now.
Well I think GoJet requires something like 1500 in type to upgrade. That 2012 hire could have come to GoJet with an appreciable amount of time so upgrade was quick. My friends were all hired in early 2012 with ATP mins and the first year one of them flew less than 200 hours on reserve. Hard to get to 1500 when you aren't flying. Almost everyone I talk to in the airline industry has a different story of how they got to be be we're they are now. But if I ask almost any regional pilot who has been at it for more than a few years they all have the same advice, "Don't chase a 'quick upgrade'". And there are regionals that aren't taking concessions and aren't shrinking their flying. Advising someone to go to PSA in the current regional environment is (in my opinion) deplorable. A lot of people are sacrificing and trying hard to make the regionals a decent place to work for new hires. PSA is lowering the bar. Compass, SkyWest, Republic (new contract), Horizon, or even CommutAir (new contract) would be a better choice than PSA.
 
Well I think GoJet requires something like 1500 in type to upgrade. That 2012 hire could have come to GoJet with an appreciable amount of time so upgrade was quick. My friends were all hired in early 2012 with ATP mins and the first year one of them flew less than 200 hours on reserve. Hard to get to 1500 when you aren't flying. Almost everyone I talk to in the airline industry has a different story of how they got to be be we're they are now. But if I ask almost any regional pilot who has been at it for more than a few years they all have the same advice, "Don't chase a 'quick upgrade'".
Well obviously yes you must meet company requirements to upgrade. Heck, when I started in late '07 I had two CAs junior to me simply because they had the time to upgrade whereas I did not. You can't sweat that kinda thing because it's still about safety and having the time to upgrade in that equipment. Chasing a quick upgrade is renamed into find the regional that has the potential for quickest movement. For example, right now there is just zero movement at legacy XJT. Friend of mine hired Dec 2006 just upgraded there. Similarly, if you go to a regional that is parking planes, like Endeavor, you are just going to stagnate yourself for years.

And there are regionals that aren't taking concessions and aren't shrinking their flying. Advising someone to go to PSA in the current regional environment is (in my opinion) deplorable. A lot of people are sacrificing and trying hard to make the regionals a decent place to work for new hires. PSA is lowering the bar. Compass, SkyWest, Republic (new contract), Horizon, or even CommutAir (new contract) would be a better choice than PSA.

Doesn't matter, what's done is done. Going to PSA right now is going to give you the shortest pain at the lowest level of the airline pilot job... a regional. The pay sucks, it is not meant for anything long term. Your goal should be to get in, get your time, and get out to where you really want to go (whichever legacy/major) as soon as possible in a seniority driven environment that this profession is in. As for the ones you mentioned, yes, I would recommend Compass because even though they aren't getting new planes, they are moving tons of CAs over to Delta as part of the flow. Compass will therefore have movement for this year, next year, and at least the year after. Any CA hired before Aug 2010 there is going to Delta via flow (unless they go elsewhere). SkyWest? Maybe, but I believe they are stagnating too with not much movement or net fleet growth. Republic? Don't know enough about their new contract. Horizon? No way. Their most junior CAs has at least 10-12 yrs at the company and you don't go to Horizon to further your career. It just stagnates. CommutAir? Yes, I hear there is enough attrition/movement to make it a good move to get the time and get out.

The "regional bar" is the most over-used term that is completely useless. Fact one: no matter what you do, someone will always vote to do your same job cheaper. Case in point, Endeavor and PSA. There are pilot groups that will vote yes to fly the same planes your regional is for far cheaper. You can take the high ground all you want, while those guys upgrade, get their time, and then get to FedEx, Delta, US Airways, while you are still stuck. Pilots have voted yes to secure a known fleet plan. Recently, at least one pilot group (Eagle) said no, and put a stop to that kind of thing at their airline. However, they are now threatened with a shutdown and loss of a majority of their RJ flying.

Get in, get your time, get out. Your goal should be to minimize the years you spend at regional wages to maximize your years you will earn legacy/major wages. This is especially realized for every year gained when you consider your last few years as a legacy/major Captain.
 
But that "shortest pain at the lowest level of the airline job" with a quick upgrade could disappear tomorrow. Contracts don't mean diddly as the mainline players have already proven time and again. The problem as I see it with your thinking is that the qualified pilot supply is already in the process of drying up. Why else would airlines be offering a $12,000 signing bonus (*cough Silver *cough) if they were already getting the applicants they needed to fill classes and fly routes. And sure Eagle/envoy may be losing the 50 seat and less flying, but that was going to happen regardless. And who may I ask do you think is just going to step up and fill the gap for American's feed when pretty much 75% of the regionals are having staffing issues? Just staying... Times, they are a changing. No one knows what the ultimate fall out will be from this but I can tell you that there won't be a much better opportunity than in the next year or two for regional pilots to "get theirs". No sense going somewhere for a potentially elusive "quick upgrade" when all you are really doing is screwing over everyone else. There are plenty of regionals out there. Hell, pilots pretty much have their pick right now. Don't go somewhere that is actively trying to harm the profession.
 
True, but the big obvious bad moves should be avoided. Anyone with a guaranteed shrinking fleet plan (Endeavor/Envoy) should be avoided. Anyone growing currently would be the best move. Yes the movement can/will stop but at least not at the current moment. As for the last comment "don't go somewhere that is actively trying to harm the profession" it is way too late for that. All regionals are hurting the profession, they are basically doing what mainline DC9 / B727s were doing years ago. That's why I think the best thing to do is to minimize time spent in this regional cycle.
 
Take the job that is least likely to leave you the sort of shell-of-a-person who would respond with great earnestness to a thread about what some hypothetical person would do in a ridiculous industry. Spend your time hiking Kilimenjaro or like discovering the Seven Nobel Truths, or whatever. Simply by virtue of being a human being, you're better than this wack-ass poop. How absurdly ridiculous...80 years and you spend your time on this? Puh-leeze.
 
Settling down. Chasing adventure can also involve moving frequently or not laying roots in a particular place in preparation for a possible move.
Clearly you have never been a single FO at a commuter. They can have one of the best, most adventurous lives out there. My new hire partner sat reserve on a sailboat off the coast of the UK, and later rented a beach house complete with a "maid" on the coast of some Asian country and sat reserve (long call) there. He has numerous jumpseat stories, one of the best is going out with the crew when they got to Europe and driving an Aston Martin through the Swiss Alps. Guy was nuts.
 
Clearly you have never been a single FO at a commuter. They can have one of the best, most adventurous lives out there. My new hire partner sat reserve on a sailboat off the coast of the UK, and later rented a beach house complete with a "maid" on the coast of some Asian country and sat reserve (long call) there. He has numerous jumpseat stories, one of the best is going out with the crew when they got to Europe and driving an Aston Martin through the Swiss Alps. Guy was nuts.
You got me on the the jumpseating. I was more referring to the work. I'm one of those weirdos that still likes flying though... :)

For what it's worth. CapeAir in the states doesn't sound that exciting. CapeAir in Puerto Rico would be a hoot!
 
Clearly you have never been a single FO at a commuter. They can have one of the best, most adventurous lives out there. My new hire partner sat reserve on a sailboat off the coast of the UK, and later rented a beach house complete with a "maid" on the coast of some Asian country and sat reserve (long call) there. He has numerous jumpseat stories, one of the best is going out with the crew when they got to Europe and driving an Aston Martin through the Swiss Alps. Guy was nuts.
What was the call out time? 2 days?
 
You got me on the the jumpseating. I was more referring to the work. I'm one of those weirdos that still likes flying though... :)

For what it's worth. CapeAir in the states doesn't sound that exciting. CapeAir in Puerto Rico would be a hoot!

I still like flying as well.

But I also like money, building my retirement and having time and money to do stuff with my wife & kids (or strippers, boats, race cars were I single)
 
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