ADF strongly opposes Home Dispatching

manniax

Well-met in the Ka-tet
I don't buy it. Social distancing is only one step to mitigate the risk of transmission, you're still in contact with these people - you touch the same hard surfaces in the office regardless how spread out you are. It costs the company more money to keep up with constant cleanings and operating two SOCs than it would just giving people laptops and having them work from home. It is about employee safety and keeping the operation running, they go hand in hand. We're an asset that the company has invested both time and money in - it's in their best interest to keep us healthy and safe.
Well, let's see, who was it that said earlier in this thread...

The cost savings is coming from getting rid of office space and the associated costs - water, electricity, office supplies, liability insurance, building maintenance and security. Computer equipment is such a small cost when compared to other expenses with having people in an office.
Which way are you trying to sell the idea of remote dispatching? Social distancing that is more expensive to the company, or cost savings for the company?

I'm not sure why you're so "gung ho" on this concept, but all I can say is that they must make some really tasty Kool-Aid in Utah.

Why do you work for an employer that you feel is always out to get you?
I don't! My employer has looked at and tested the work from home concept, and determined that it is NOT a safe way to dispatch airplanes. I'm glad I'm not working for *your* employer right now, though.
 
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Eskhobbs

Well-Known Member
Well, let's see, who was it that said earlier in this thread..."The cost savings is coming from getting rid of office space and the associated costs - water, electricity, office supplies, liability insurance, building maintenance and security. Computer equipment is such a small cost when compared to other expenses with having people in an office. " Oh wait, that was you, wasn't it?

Which way are you trying to sell the idea of remote dispatching? Social distancing that is more expensive to the company, or cost savings for the company?

I'm not sure why you're so "gung ho" on this concept, but all I can say is that they must make some really tasty Kool-Aid in Utah.



I don't! My employer has looked at and tested the work from home concept, and determined that it is NOT a safe way to dispatch airplanes. I'm glad I'm not working for *your* employer right now, though.
What? My argument has been consistent that keeping one or two offices open is more expensive than giving employees the hardware they need to work from home but sure, stick a quote in there from someone else to try and prove your point.

Kool-Aid? It's keeping employees safe during a global pandemic. If you want to try to hide your fears of having dispatch farmed out to ITP providers behind arguments of technology and safety, go ahead if it makes you sleep better at night.
 

who'swho

Don't hesitate. Penetrate!
Well, let's see, who was it that said earlier in this thread..."The cost savings is coming from getting rid of office space and the associated costs - water, electricity, office supplies, liability insurance, building maintenance and security. Computer equipment is such a small cost when compared to other expenses with having people in an office. " Oh wait, that was you, wasn't it?

Which way are you trying to sell the idea of remote dispatching? Social distancing that is more expensive to the company, or cost savings for the company?

I'm not sure why you're so "gung ho" on this concept, but all I can say is that they must make some really tasty Kool-Aid in Utah.



I don't! My employer has looked at and tested the work from home concept, and determined that it is NOT a safe way to dispatch airplanes. I'm glad I'm not working for *your* employer right now, though.
To be clear, I never said there was a cost savings. When an employer is running their OCC in addition to allowing volunteers to work from home, during a pandemic, there is no cost savings. Now when said pandemic is over, if companies try to push for employees to work from home then that's a different story. There was a big push a few years back to have employees, in a variety of fields, work from home but companies discovered productive suffered. I really don't think this will turn into what some are afraid of.
Side note: not everyone on here who agrees with working from home has worked at Skywest.
 

manniax

Well-met in the Ka-tet
What? My argument has been consistent that keeping one or two offices open is more expensive than giving employees the hardware they need to work from home but sure, stick a quote in there from someone else to try and prove your point.
You mean this message?

The cost savings is coming from getting rid of office space and the associated costs - water, electricity, office supplies, liability insurance, building maintenance and security. Computer equipment is such a small cost when compared to other expenses with having people in an office.
I don't think it came from anyone else except you.
 

manniax

Well-met in the Ka-tet
Side note: not everyone on here who agrees with working from home has worked at Skywest.
I'm not against working from home for every position in the NOC. There are actually dispatchers working in various positions within the department (training, etc.) who I believe are currently working from home at my airline. What I disagree with is dispatching flights from home. I think I've my reasoning for that fairly clear by now so I won't repeat myself.
 

Eskhobbs

Well-Known Member
You mean this message?

I don't think it came from anyone else except you.
I'm not sure what you're getting at? Yes, if you close down office space and give people the equipment so they can work from home it's going to save you money and keep your employees safe. That is what both of those quotes say.
 

manniax

Well-met in the Ka-tet
I'm not sure what you're getting at? Yes, if you close down office space and give people the equipment so they can work from home it's going to save you money and keep your employees safe. That is what both of those quotes say.
I feel the dispatching and monitoring of flights from home is less safe and efficient for the airline's operation than performing that job function in a traditional NOC office, and I feel that a traditional office can be made adequately safe to continue to do the job from there. You appear to disagree with me on this, and I won't repeat my reasoning again, but it's all in this thread if you want to look at it.

I do think that even the person who approved the "dispatch from home" exemption must have realized some benefit to the traditional office setup or they wouldn't have put a cap of 20% on the number of people who can release flights from home, though. At any rate - I hope this concept is investigated more fully by the FAA and the "work from home" option is quietly allowed to fade into the sunset. Time will tell.
 

CF34-3B1

Well-Known Member
looks like there are those of us who enjoy what we do for a living and want to continue to do it until we retire. And it looks like there are some enthusiastic techies that would love to eventually be in IT one day instead of dispatch.

none of us is going to change the other’s mind on this. all I can say is I’m so glad the majors are not doing this and thankful I don’t work at SkyWest or any other nonunion shop.

AI can’t do everything (several real life examples I have experienced in the last month and I only worked 4 days that month) and I don’t see that eliminating dispatch anytime soon. Don’t think the majors will be dispatching from home anytime soon either.
 

flynryan692

Well-Known Member
But the problem with the AI doing it is this. Lets say you have a flight going to an airport and the TAF doesn't require an alt or is forecasting TS or even VCTS. On the Radar you see a massive squall line making a B line for the airport and based on the speed of the system will impact the airport when you land but NWS hasn't updated yet (and wont until the flight is already enroute) and the flight is an hour out from departure. Do you think the AI will look at the radar, realize the squall line will hit and add the alt or just go by the 123 rule and send it no alt? Its not always cut and dry especially when it comes to bad weather. Thats why we have the human element in dispatch.
Yeah, something programmed to follow a set of programmed rules would absolutely screw up that situation, however AI doesn't work that way. AI uses algorithms to make decisions and then learns from the outcome of those decisions. So AI might screw that up the first time, maybe the second and even the third time, but during a learning phase it would learn about the potential outcome of a squall line headed for the airport and add an alternate. A great example would be Tesla autopilot, it uses AI and is getting better and better although it's not still all there yet.
 

Mainline_or_bust

Airplanes fly on PFM, Change my mind
Yeah, something programmed to follow a set of programmed rules would absolutely screw up that situation, however AI doesn't work that way. AI uses algorithms to make decisions and then learns from the outcome of those decisions. So AI might screw that up the first time, maybe the second and even the third time, but during a learning phase it would learn about the potential outcome of a squall line headed for the airport and add an alternate. A great example would be Tesla autopilot, it uses AI and is getting better and better although it's not still all there yet.
That’s why IBM has been using supercomputers for years to forecast weather and as a result Fusion hasn’t ever been wrong forecasting weather, oh wait it’s wrong all the time just like human NWS forecasters.


I feel the dispatching and monitoring of flights from home is less safe and efficient for the airline's operation than performing that job function in a traditional NOC office, and I feel that a traditional office can be made adequately safe to continue to do the job from there. You appear to disagree with me on this, and I won't repeat my reasoning again, but it's all in this thread if you want to look at it.

I do think that even the person who approved the "dispatch from home" exemption must have realized some benefit to the traditional office setup or they wouldn't have put a cap of 20% on the number of people who can release flights from home, though. At any rate - I hope this concept is investigated more fully by the FAA and the "work from home" option is quietly allowed to fade into the sunset. Time will tell.
I have to say I’ve agreed with you pretty much the whole time. I think anyone promoting dispatching from home is looking out for number 1 or trying to solve problems that already have solutions. I can confirm a positive test doesn’t shut down the OCC/GOC it’s a desk clean, quarantine for the person and those in contact. So two locations as required more than addresses the problem during CoVid.
I actually think this might have been approved as well in haste as means of creating another option if the CDC 6ft for more than 15 minutes rule wasn’t enough. As you’ve said there are zero benefits to dispatching from home specific to the operation. Maybe the individual and the airline find them but neither should matter whatsoever. How could this ever pass a risk assessment, I don’t know. It’s only increasing risks without increasing safety, there’s just too much that could go wrong, too many variables. My vote even as a 20-something tech friendly guy is a HARD NO, talk to me in 20 years probably it’ll still be a no.
 
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RaimOutage

Active Member
(please don't rip me apart, as I'm new to this) Is ADF a union? I noticed they post on Facebook, but no one ever actually signs the messages. I am guessing it's more than one person? I agree with the above poster, who is this cryptic ADF? Stuff on their website hasn't been updated in what looks like years
 

manniax

Well-met in the Ka-tet
(please don't rip me apart, as I'm new to this) Is ADF a union? I noticed they post on Facebook, but no one ever actually signs the messages. I am guessing it's more than one person? I agree with the above poster, who is this cryptic ADF? Stuff on their website hasn't been updated in what looks like years
They are not a union, just a professional organization. If you ever get a chance, attend one of their annual summits. It's always a good time and a good chance to meet a lot of dispatchers from all over the industry! Hopefully they will resume in 2021.

From their website: The ADF is an all volunteer organization (all working dispatchers) and in accordance with our bylaws is an advocacy organization for working dispatchers and not a labor organization.

For anyone who hasn't checked it out yet (especially if you're a member through your airline) their website address is www.dispatcher.org
 
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FlyNKD

Well-Known Member
Completely off topic,but I think there should be a NDB - National Dispatchers Bureau to compliment the ADF (not sure if the young whippersnappers know what an ADF is)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
There is an IFALDA (International Federation of Airline Dispatchers Association) - I found out about them in Dallas last year during ADF because they were going to have a conference in Toronto this year (now next year).
 
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