Add on category rating

hammerhat

Well-Known Member
So here's another hypothetical situation. Let's say I have a student working on a category add-on to his existing certificate. I give him solo logbook endorsement (#62 in the AC) without any limitations. He doesn't need any student pilot certificate endorsements (in fact he doesn't need the Student Pilot certificate at all) and the subpart on Student Pilots does not apply to him.

Does that mean that on his first solo flight he can legally carry pax and fly 500nm XC into class Bravo airport of his choice at night without any additional endorsements? And he doesn't need any XC planning review either. Heck, he can even do that in furtherance of business. Am I right?
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
61.31(d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must—
(1) Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown; or
(2) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the pilot certification level, aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received an endorsement for solo flight in that aircraft from an authorized instructor.


They are not a student pilot so they dont need any of the X/C, night, airspace endorsements.
 

grkero

fer yer health
My brain is starting to hurt after reading that a few times. What certificate does the student already have? Student or private?
 

hammerhat

Well-Known Member
My brain is starting to hurt after reading that a few times. What certificate does the student already have? Student or private?
The student already has their private certificate. He's working on another category add-on.
 

grkero

fer yer health
There is no expiration to the endorsement unless you list one.
Yeah this is something I have always kept in mind. Say you have a Private student learning in their own high performance. I would endorse their high performance for a 90 day period in sync with their typical 90 day solo endorsement.
 

KHanson

Well-Known Member
Yeah this is something I have always kept in mind. Say you have a Private student learning in their own high performance. I would endorse their high performance for a 90 day period in sync with their typical 90 day solo endorsement.
No, you give them the HP endorsement which is good for life. There is no such thing as a 90 day trial version of any additional endorsement. The 90 day is for a student soloing in general. Maybe that's what you meant but its worded in a confusing manner.
 

grkero

fer yer health
No, you give them the HP endorsement which is good for life. There is no such thing as a 90 day trial version of any additional endorsement. The 90 day is for a student soloing in general. Maybe that's what you meant but its worded in a confusing manner.
You can put a limitation on an endorsement from what I have understood. Just like limitations on an initial solo or cross country. I would endorse for the HP but write in the endorsement that it is only good for 90 days. Once they got their private I would just give an endorsement without limitation.
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
You can put a limitation on an endorsement from what I have understood. Just like limitations on an initial solo or cross country. I would endorse for the HP but write in the endorsement that it is only good for 90 days. Once they got their private I would just give an endorsement without limitation.
You can, of course, limit a student pilot's endorsements, like for solo and cross country restrictions, which helps keep them operating in a safer environment with wider safety margins and further cover your own liability, but I dont quite understand what you're accomplishing trying to limit their HP endorsement, since they cannot fly without a valid solo endorsement anyway.

The HP endorsement is pretty simple and most people will give one with a quick chat and a hop around the pattern. I'm just trying to understand what liability you are trying to cover here.
 

drunkenbeagle

Gang Member
You can, of course, limit a student pilot's endorsements, like for solo and cross country restrictions, which helps keep them operating in a safer environment with wider safety margins and further cover your own liability, but I dont quite understand what you're accomplishing trying to limit their HP endorsement, since they cannot fly without a valid solo endorsement anyway.
Yeah, I wouldn't be putting unnecessary limits on endorsements either. Mostly because I would forget to remove them when it was time. I already have 10 pages of illegible tiny print endorsements in my logbook - the world needs fewer, not more :)
 

KHanson

Well-Known Member
You can put a limitation on an endorsement from what I have understood. Just like limitations on an initial solo or cross country. I would endorse for the HP but write in the endorsement that it is only good for 90 days. Once they got their private I would just give an endorsement without limitation.
I disagree with you 110%, but to each their own. The regulation even says that the HP endorsement is a one time endorsement. If you're going to review all the private "stuff" with your student, then they can only do that in the airplane which they were initialyl signed off for, so the 90 day endorsement on the HP endorsement is useless because it's already covered under the FAR's a.k.a. the 90-day endorsement. If the student is training in a C210, gets signed off for solo in a C210, and is gone on a 5 month hiatus, he has to go through the 90-day training anyways, which is going to cover systems on the aircraft, V-speeds, o2 systems if equipped, etc... so it's already covered. I know we're all about CYA'ing but this is just unnecessary. Bad question, but make sense? There should be NO limitations put on ANY of the additional endorsements (14CFR FAR 61.31)
 

grkero

fer yer health
I disagree with you 110%, but to each their own. The regulation even says that the HP endorsement is a one time endorsement. If you're going to review all the private "stuff" with your student, then they can only do that in the airplane which they were initialyl signed off for, so the 90 day endorsement on the HP endorsement is useless because it's already covered under the FAR's a.k.a. the 90-day endorsement. If the student is training in a C210, gets signed off for solo in a C210, and is gone on a 5 month hiatus, he has to go through the 90-day training anyways, which is going to cover systems on the aircraft, V-speeds, o2 systems if equipped, etc... so it's already covered. I know we're all about CYA'ing but this is just unnecessary. Bad question, but make sense? There should be NO limitations put on ANY of the additional endorsements (14CFR FAR 61.31)
110%? That's a lot!
 
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