Active Army RW to USAR FW (Warrant Officer)

Z

zVo

Well-Known Member
Is anyone here familiar with the hiring process for USAR fixed-wing, in particular, for those leaving active duty?

The USAR/ARNG is a big mystery to active duty guys and no one has the first idea of how the transition is done other than possibly through the ACAP process. I know where the different USAR units are that have C-12s and I know which I'd like to target if they're hiring, but where does one begin? While I'm not rated in any Army FW, I do have my Commercial ASEL & AMEL + Instrument + CFI & CFII... is that taken into consideration?

V/R,
zVo
 
zVo said:
Is anyone here familiar with the hiring process for USAR fixed-wing, in particular, for those leaving active duty?

The USAR/ARNG is a big mystery to active duty guys and no one has the first idea of how the transition is done other than possibly through the ACAP process. I know where the different USAR units are that have C-12s and I know which I'd like to target if they're hiring, but where does one begin? While I'm not rated in any Army FW, I do have my Commercial ASEL & AMEL + Instrument + CFI & CFII... is that taken into consideration?

V/R,
zVo
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We have a pretty active C-12 unit where I work (MEARNG). I'll ask around tomorrow. They aren't looking to hire, but they'd definitely know the process and have some advice.
 
If you find out, that would be awesome if you could share that knowledge. I know the ARNG is more of a "good 'ole boy" system thus much harder to transition to as an outsider as opposed to somone from the unit -- as opposed to the Reserves, but I'd imagine the process is similar.
 
zVo said:
If you find out, that would be awesome if you could share that knowledge. I know the ARNG is more of a "good 'ole boy" system thus much harder to transition to as an outsider as opposed to somone from the unit -- as opposed to the Reserves, but I'd imagine the process is similar.
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It's not really a "good ol' boy" system, it's that you've only got 4-6 C12 slots in any given unit and turnover is very slow. When a slot does actually open up, they have units full of qualified helicopter pilots they can pull from who they know and have worked with for years. It's just not worth it most of the time hiring an unknown.

The way you become a C12 pilot in the guard is by first flying helicopters for the guard. Consider it a two-step, multi-year interview process. ;)
 
zVo said:
If you find out, that would be awesome if you could share that knowledge. I know the ARNG is more of a "good 'ole boy" system thus much harder to transition to as an outsider as opposed to somone from the unit -- as opposed to the Reserves, but I'd imagine the process is similar.
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As Mike said, the slots in the Guard are usually filled from within by pilots who have been groomed by the unit in the state. Best bet would be to contact the OIC for the unit, the OSM/CWOSM for the state, and the SAO's office, in that order. Though you will probably (though I have no USAR experience) have a better chance of a direct hire into the slot through the reserves.

I had a few buddies who went straight to the AQC for C-12s out of flight school, I'll see if I can find out about possible openings as we'll for you.
 
MikeFavinger said:
It's not really a "good ol' boy" system, it's that you've only got 4-6 C12 slots in any given unit and turnover is very slow. When a slot does actually open up, they have units full of qualified helicopter pilots they can pull from who they know and have worked with for years. It's just not worth it most of the time hiring an unknown.

The way you become a C12 pilot in the guard is by first flying helicopters for the guard. Consider it a two-step, multi-year interview process. ;)
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This.......
Not really a "good 'ole boy system"; think about it this way, if YOU were in the position to fill a C-12 slot, would you fill it with someone that you've just met or someone that you've flown/worked with for years? It's expensive to send a pilot to the training course; you want to spend it on a "newby" or someone that has shown dedication to your unit over the years?
Now if you want to come in the door C-12 qualified, then your stock goes way up as those training dollars can be used elsewhere. Non-qualifed, you're at the bottom of a long list of pilots that have been with the unit for a long time.
The USAR is very similar but their training dollars have a different allocation route. Still tough to just walk in non-qualified though
 
Had a chat with our C-12 OIC today and from what I gathered, we can barely afford to fill one slot, and that slot is going to a warrant in the unit.

Also, it seems like you'll find that's how it'll work in most states as far as ARNG goes.

Mike hit the nail on the head.
 
Go to the Air National Guard (Air Force Reserve) you can inter service transfer, commision as a 2LT (or 1LT if you are W3+), they will send you to fix wing transition, or join a helo unit then transition FW in a few years. its been done before. many times. But you gotta have the 4 years of collage (they use to take 2 years college, if you promise to get 4 by O-3 rank, but i think they stop that). Me and several other army pilots did it several years ago. Each unit has a recruiter and a pilot selection board. The unit recruiter will have the info you need. Just start calling ANG unit recruiters for the states you are interested in.
 
Got it -- bottom line: if you're not rated, good luck getting a spot in a FW unit... maybe better luck with the USAR.

razzorJC, I sent you a private message.
 
dustoff17 said:
This.......
Not really a "good 'ole boy system"; think about it this way, if YOU were in the position to fill a C-12 slot, would you fill it with someone that you've just met or someone that you've flown/worked with for years? It's expensive to send a pilot to the training course; you want to spend it on a "newby" or someone that has shown dedication to your unit over the years?
Now if you want to come in the door C-12 qualified, then your stock goes way up as those training dollars can be used elsewhere. Non-qualifed, you're at the bottom of a long list of pilots that have been with the unit for a long time.
The USAR is very similar but their training dollars have a different allocation route. Still tough to just walk in non-qualified though
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One thing I've argued for and recently won was sending new guys to the C-12 unit. For years hiring as been just as you and I described - a slot comes open, a senior helo guy is chosen. Usually the person chosen is north of 45 years old, giving him 15 years or less with the unit, tops.

I argued that taking a pilot fresh from flight school is smart for a number of reasons. First - there's nothing special about a plane. There's no technical reason a new guy can't do it. There's no operational need to choose a senior warrant just to fly a King Air. Second - a new guy, say 25-30 years old, has north of 30 years of longevity which saves money in turnover and training costs. Third - choosing a new guy means he will be a subject matter expert in airplanes by the time he's a CW3 or 4 as opposed to putting an existing CW4 in the position who will just be getting good when he's about to retire.

Much to the angst of many senior warrants, we recently sent a brand new IERW grad to C-12 school and assigned him to the unit.
 
MikeFavinger said:
One thing I've argued for and recently won was sending new guys to the C-12 unit. For years hiring as been just as you and I described - a slot comes open, a senior helo guy is chosen. Usually the person chosen is north of 45 years old, giving him 15 years or less with the unit, tops.

I argued that taking a pilot fresh from flight school is smart for a number of reasons. First - there's nothing special about a plane. There's no technical reason a new guy can't do it. There's no operational need to choose a senior warrant just to fly a King Air. Second - a new guy, say 25-30 years old, has north of 30 years of longevity which saves money in turnover and training costs. Third - choosing a new guy means he will be a subject matter expert in airplanes by the time he's a CW3 or 4 as opposed to putting an existing CW4 in the position who will just be getting good when he's about to retire.

Much to the angst of many senior warrants, we recently sent a brand new IERW grad to C-12 school and assigned him to the unit.
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I had two friends go to the fixed wing course right out of IERW, so some states are doing this. I think it's a better option, just not common unfortunately.
 
MikeFavinger said:
One thing I've argued for and recently won was sending new guys to the C-12 unit. For years hiring as been just as you and I described - a slot comes open, a senior helo guy is chosen. Usually the person chosen is north of 45 years old, giving him 15 years or less with the unit, tops.

I argued that taking a pilot fresh from flight school is smart for a number of reasons. First - there's nothing special about a plane. There's no technical reason a new guy can't do it. There's no operational need to choose a senior warrant just to fly a King Air. Second - a new guy, say 25-30 years old, has north of 30 years of longevity which saves money in turnover and training costs. Third - choosing a new guy means he will be a subject matter expert in airplanes by the time he's a CW3 or 4 as opposed to putting an existing CW4 in the position who will just be getting good when he's about to retire.

Much to the angst of many senior warrants, we recently sent a brand new IERW grad to C-12 school and assigned him to the unit.
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I ABSOLUTELY agree! A new pilot would be an incredible asset for all the reasons you mentioned.

The last C-12 pilot put in the unit was a CW3 (promoted shortly after the transition), he out ranked three of the other pilots that had WAY more C-12 experience. Every time he flew they had to complete about twenty different DD Form 365-4s. He threw so much weight around that cockpit, you never really knew if the plane would remain in CG!!!
 
zVo said:
Is anyone here familiar with the hiring process for USAR fixed-wing, in particular, for those leaving active duty?

The USAR/ARNG is a big mystery to active duty guys and no one has the first idea of how the transition is done other than possibly through the ACAP process. I know where the different USAR units are that have C-12s and I know which I'd like to target if they're hiring, but where does one begin? While I'm not rated in any Army FW, I do have my Commercial ASEL & AMEL + Instrument + CFI & CFII... is that taken into consideration?

V/R,
Don't limit yourself to C-12 units. The hiring is the same for UC-35. Although normally UC-35 pilots have a min of 500 mult -engine time. The first step is to find a unit that needs pilots. USAjobs.gov is one way. A phone call to the unit works as well.
zVo
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I've done more research and called a few units. What I've gathered is that when it comes time to transition, joining a unit is as simple as getting "hired" by assigned to a line number in a unit's MTOE so long as the vacancy exits. The problem is that, especially in light of all the downsizing, most units are afforded one fixed-wing AQC slot per year... with that being said, there's usually 2-3 people waiting in line for a position. The good news is that with the proper amount of military rotary-wing time and civilian fixed-wing time, one can attend the FWQ "short course" which is a lot more affordable for units (prerequisites listed here).
 
Try going to APTAP. There a bunch of Army RW to FW guys there- some who went Air Force and even a few who hooked up with Navy Reserve FW units.
 
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