acronym for when no PT is allowed

taseal

taseal

Well-Known Member
anyone know it? I can't find it in my notes

so far I got DRUMS for mand reports and MARVELOUSVFR500 for the AIM rec reports, but can't find no PT stuff

oh and GRABCARDD for the IFR equipment and MONAVD for mag compass errors and PIMPLE to go through each instrument

any other acronyms will help regarding IFR, i love those things :)
 
Erm....hows about when the plate says, "NoPT," or when it's pretty freakin' obvious you don't need to turn around. I'm not trying to be a •, I just thought it was always pretty obvious if you needed to do a course reversal or not.
 
jtrain609 said:
Erm....hows about when the plate says, "NoPT," or when it's pretty freakin' obvious you don't need to turn around. I'm not trying to be a •, I just thought it was always pretty obvious if you needed to do a course reversal or not.
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I know, its pretty stupid, but they're going to ask me, and when I don't have a chart in front of me to look at, I'm going to miss one out

(IFR checkride coming up real soon)
 
BuickCFI said:
Holding, NoPT, Vectors, Arc, Timed approaches. anything else?
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ok, just called up CFII

S - Straight in
H - Hold in lieu
A - Arc
R - Radar Vectors
P - PT not allowed (NoPT)
T - Timed app


I know its common sense, but its just nice to have it incase I forget one when they ask me when I can't do PTs
 
That's a lot of acronyms thar...I have a hard enough time remembering "8 inches bottle to throttle" sometimes. Then again, I ride the short bus to work.....:panic:

-mini
 
taseal said:
ok, just called up CFII

S - Straight in
H - Hold in lieu
A - Arc
R - Radar Vectors
P - PT not allowed (NoPT)
T - Timed app


I know its common sense, but its just nice to have it incase I forget one when they ask me when I can't do PTs
Click to expand...
straight in as in not one depicted at all? that is pretty self explanitory. it is the others like time approaches that are obscure
 
taseal said:
ok, just called up CFII

S - Straight in
H - Hold in lieu
A - Arc
R - Radar Vectors
P - PT not allowed (NoPT)
T - Timed app


I know its common sense, but its just nice to have it incase I forget one when they ask me when I can't do PTs
Click to expand...
This is one that shows the silliness of many mnemonics.


S - Straight in. Hmmm. Go ahead. Find this one in the regs. =Arguably= a "cleared straight in" from ATC is an exception, but absolutely, positively not the fact that you happen to be going straight in, unless it's a NoPT route.

H - hold in lieu. The hold in lieu is is just another style of PT and is as required just as any other PT and has all of the same exceptions. I'm sure at least one person who learned this one had a checkride where the DPE pointed to a HILPT on a chart and asked when he didn't have to do it, and couldn't answer it. Besides, if you want to list the HLPT, you also need to list the teardrop, don't you?

A - Arc. Another good one. You won't find "arc" listed in the reg that covers the exceptions. A DME arc doesn't involve a PT because they are marked NoPT on the charts, not because they are an arc.

Great mnemonic. The first three letters are WMD.

Wrong
Misleading
Duplicative


Edit: and so much for "common sense."
 
How about NORTH

No PT listed
Otherwise directed by ATC
Radar Vectors to Final App. Course
Timed approach
Holding or Teardrop in lieu of PT

That's what I was taught in Ground School, meh.


Relative Bearing...."Mary had roast beef, Mary barfed..."

MH + RB = MB

Magnetic Heading + Relative Bearing = Magnetic Bearing
 
For no PTs in the AF we used the acronym SNoRT

so no PT when you are conducting:
Straight in
No PT routing
Radar vectored
Timed approaches
 
taseal said:
ok, just called up CFII

S - Straight in
H - Hold in lieu
A - Arc
R - Radar Vectors
P - PT not allowed (NoPT)
T - Timed app


I know its common sense, but its just nice to have it incase I forget one when they ask me when I can't do PTs
Click to expand...

If it says "No PT" then you should get a pass and not have to memorize that. So your memory aid should read:

S - Straight in
H - Hold in lieu
A - Arc
R - Radar Vectors
T - Timed app



:D
 
Beers said:
If it says "No PT" then you should get a pass and not have to memorize that. So your memory aid should read:

S - Straight in
H - Hold in lieu
A - Arc
R - Radar Vectors
T - Timed app



:D
Click to expand...
Actually you're left with

RT

since a HIPLT =is= a procedure turn, Arc also says NoPT and "straight in" either (a) involves a controller telling you your are cleared straight, in which case you don't need a memory aid, (b) also says NoPT or (c) is wrong.

But that doesn't work. So you =have to= fill in the mnemonic, even if it makes no sense or is misleading or is downright wrong. Seems to me it's the mnemonic that's the important thing, not what it's supposedly helping you to remember.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
But that doesn't work. So you =have to= fill in the mnemonic, even if it makes no sense or is misleading or is downright wrong. Seems to me it's the mnemonic that's the important thing, not what it's supposedly helping you to remember.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand the point of this, either.
 
Stomp16 said:
What? 8 inches bottle to throttle? What does inches mean? :confused:
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*sigh*
Note the emoticon at the end of my post.:hiya: Just trying to have a little bit of humorous fun with a play on the "8 hours bottle to throttle" saying. Relax a bit, it's good for ya. :)

-mini
 
mojo6911 said:
I don't really understand the point of this, either.
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The point is that we overuse mnemonics. We create them for things we should just know. We write ones that are so incomprehensible that you need a mnemonic to figure out the mnemonic. We twist and turn things so that we can create a mnemonic, even if the information in it is redundant or even wrong, like the "No PT" ones we are discussing. I've even had a DPE complain that an applicant didn't know a mnemonic, even though he knew knew everything (and more) that the mnemonic was designed to remind him of. He was being tested on knowing the mnemonic, not the information.

As I said, the mnemonic becomes more important than the information.

And, ultimately, most of them teach nothing.

I do a quiz periodically in which I ask a very simple airworthiness question. Overall, people who were taught "TOMATO FLAMES" and its kin will get it wrong far more often than those who never heard of the mnemonic.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
As I said, the mnemonic becomes more important than the information. And, ultimately, most of them teach nothing...Overall, people who were taught "TOMATO FLAMES" and its kin will get it wrong far more often than those who never heard of the mnemonic
Click to expand...

My observation matches yours. Even when the meaning of the mnemonic can be retrieved, the information isn't stored in the way we normally access it. For instance, if I point at a VSI and ask the instrument student if that's a required piece of equipment, I get a blank stare, even if they know GRABCARDD (or whatever it is).

That's why I particularly dislike the FOI material; about the only way these numerous lists can be memorized is via mnemonics of some sort.
 
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