ACARS wisdom

McCrosky said:
Hopefully they ask for a TO alternate before beginning the take off roll. And if they have an emergency before the take off roll I would assume they wouldn't take off.





Not either of the two systems I've ever used. What FAR limitations apply to an aircraft in an emergency situation?

We have only deter,ones as a carrier that all airplanes operate x miles won one engine not turning in still air for an hour or 90 minutes. Again assuming an emergency it'll be a dct routing (except places where the dct involves terrain clearance and a routing around the terrain is account for).

Question for the group, has anyone ever had an airplane go to a TO alternate?
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The system I currently work with will plan a burn/time/distance when a TOA is used in planning. It shows right under the primary burns. As far as a "real time" burn, assuming the crew even has time to call, could easily be produced. I don't debate the aircraft in an emergency, but that said we also have the reg that stipulates the minimums for a required TOA.

As for a flight going to a TOA, that is a big negative.
 
Takeoff alternates have to meet Ops Spec alternate mins. Thus there can be numerous airport close to your departure that have landing mins but not alternate minimums. Statistically, emergency diversions especially in the first 15-30 minutes of flight are pretty rare. Even rarer when you take into account that the departure station is below landing minimums for CAT I or single engine CAT II or III. I dont think that there will be many dispatchers that will ever have a flight that needs to divert to the takeoff alternate because of an engine failure or other emergency. It will probably be pretty close to the number of dispatchers who have had one of their planes crash.
 
McCrosky said:
Question for the group, has anyone ever had an airplane go to a TO alternate?
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Yes, multiple times. Especially on shorter legs, when I could just make the destination the TOA.

If you mean something like "has anyone I dispatched, had an engine bum out on departure and therefore REQUIRE going to their TOA," (or something along those lines), the answer is (amazingly) no.
 
McCrosky said:
Hopefully they ask for a TO alternate before beginning the take off roll. And if they have an emergency before the take off roll I would assume they wouldn't take off.





Not either of the two systems I've ever used. What FAR limitations apply to an aircraft in an emergency situation?

We have only deter,ones as a carrier that all airplanes operate x miles won one engine not turning in still air for an hour or 90 minutes. Again assuming an emergency it'll be a dct routing (except places where the dct involves terrain clearance and a routing around the terrain is account for).

Question for the group, has anyone ever had an airplane go to a TO alternate?
Click to expand...

When you dispatch 747s, with maximum payload the driftdown is to like FL340. T/O alts are for legalities only. "You say you lost an engine just after takeoff Captain...? I agree talk to you when you land... at destination... 10 hours from now" :stir:
 
Mainline_or_bust said:
When you dispatch 747s, with maximum payload the driftdown is to like FL340. T/O alts are for legalities only. "You say you lost an engine just after takeoff Captain...? I agree talk to you when you land... at destination... 10 hours from now" :stir:
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G ...
you think 200,000 lbs of fuel is enough to get you to your T.O alternate ??
 
I had one of our -200s today with the AD on it and our company basically says that the flight crew must have 4, 100 or 5,400 lbs at brake release (4,100 if the T/O alt is up to 200 NM away and 5,400 lbs if the T/O alt is 201 to 300 NM) our max distance on the T/O alternate is 300 NM. I think I had to plan 1,350 lbs in the CONTG bucket to be sure brake release and MINF was above 4,100 lbs, I didn't have to plan MINF at 4,100 lbs but I kind of built it in to protect the crew from taking off with less then that amount. This was a KCHA - KATL trip.

I guess you could say I did today cause this flights T/O alt was his dest :)

Jared
ASQ CRJ DX
 
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onemanwolfpack said:
From time to time I get that captain that wants a burn to his t/o alternate. If I knew at what point you'd be declaring an emergency and divert to your t/o alternate I'd be glad to provide you a burn.
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"Sure, Captain. Would you like me to plan that with WING ON FIRE or WING NOT ON FIRE?"
 
I gotta wonder if pilots think of something 'funny' in the cockpit, and go "hey let's do it to ops, it'll be hilarious,"

....only to have us all groan and write threads like these...
 
Jordan93 said:
Both pilots and dispatchers have bad days. I've had dispatchers plan us in the face of the thunderstorm and when we asked them, they said the TAF looks fine:confused:
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Yep, I try to not give anybody a hard time in this field because there's just so much to learn and memorize. The best dispatcher, the best pilot, etc...will not know everything. Knowing that they don't know everything is what makes them great.

Plus everybody has a brain fart here and there. Ive missed an alternate before because I just read the taf too quick and missed a broken 1800 line. It happens.
 
derriko said:
Yep, I try to not give anybody a hard time in this field because there's just so much to learn and memorize. The best dispatcher, the best pilot, etc...will not know everything. Knowing that they don't know everything is what makes them great.

Plus everybody has a brain fart here and there. Ive missed an alternate before because I just read the taf too quick and missed a broken 1800 line. It happens.
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You never miss read TAFs you just haven't used A010 yet! It's always legal when you pay for an alternate source! :stir:
 
Mainline_or_bust said:
You never miss read TAFs you just haven't used A010 yet! It's always legal when you pay for an alternate source! :stir:
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At AA we have an authorization domestically that allows us to dispatch with no alternate with the ceiling at or above 1,000 feet. Basically its a 1-1-3 rule.
 
pljenkins said:
This isn't an ACARS one specifically, but I get this one about once a week from an ops agent doing weight and balance.

"I'm over my zero fuel weight. Can you increase that for me?"

<headesk>
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Uh, well some airplanes have a variable zero fuel weight. On the 747 you can increase the ZFW. It just lowers your MGTOW.
I don't know, but I'd wager a lot of Boeings and Airbii are like that.
 
R2D said:
Ever used 1-1-2 with exemption 10332?
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USAirways had this exemption prior to the merger, and I believe the exact language of the AA exemption does as well. The reason AA has 1-1-3 instead of 1-1-2 is because APA complained.
 
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