Academy of Aviation review?

rapidoctober

Well-Known Member
So I'm thinking about getting my PPL-CFII done at the Academy of Aviation flight school in Farmingdale, NY. The manger there talks pretty highly about the school and I wanted to see if anyone here attended the school and could give me their opinion on it. Any other flight school recommendations or advice for a wannabe pilot in the NYC area are gladly welcomed :)
 
Also try this! www.positiverategearup.com/

Call and go visit them. I took a flight or two with them. Awesome folks. They are based at Shelt-Air in KFRG.... Good guys, good deals, great price you can't beat. Growing, getting folks their certs (PPL and up) on time, under budget, and in quality aircraft. Visit their FB page also. Same name. Definitely recommend. Mom & Pop/Flying Club feel, personal attention also. It's Majority owned by a charter pilot based on field, and a Airline pilot both with a passion for teaching. Plenty instructors and 4-5 quantity a/c in fleet (not an academy feel).

Check out Fleet/Rate on the webpage. It's essentially a flying club.
 
Also try this! www.positiverategearup.com/

Call and go visit them. I took a flight or two with them. Awesome folks. They are based at Shelt-Air in KFRG.... Good guys, good deals, great price you can't beat. Growing, getting folks their certs (PPL and up) on time, under budget, and in quality aircraft. Visit their FB page also. Same name. Definitely recommend. Mom & Pop/Flying Club feel, personal attention also. It's Majority owned by a charter pilot based on field, and a Airline pilot both with a passion for teaching. Plenty instructors and 4-5 quantity a/c in fleet (not an academy feel).

Check out Fleet/Rate on the webpage. It's essentially a flying club.
Thanks a lot for this review :)
 
Yes there are other options that may be cheaper but in life you get what you pay for. There are many reasons some schools are more expensive than others. One thing you need to look into is that AOA is an FAA 141 approved school and that means a heck of a lot more oversight than any part 61 school at FRG. We are inspected by the Faa all year long where these other schools only get a visit from the Feds if there is an incident or accident and they do not have to maintain their equipment to the same standards. Next is the facilities. Do you want to work with a school who works out of a car or a side of a hangar? Or do you demand a nice, comfortable and clean place to relax, study and meet people who share similar dreams as you do? Next is insurance and liability, some of the schools do not insure their aircraft for commercial use and that is a huge amount of money annually. Insurance doesn't only protect the business but the student/customer as well because if anything goes wrong you could spend the rest of your life paying for something that if the company was responsible and had your best interests in mind you would not have to deal with. Opportunity after you complete your program??? How many schools can say you will earn between 100 to 150 hours per month of flight time as a CFI especially at some of these other locations mentioned. Let's talk about saving money. I will give you an example, so let's say you can save $20 per hour working with a school that doesn't insure properly, doesn't have competent instructors with lots of experience and a nice clean comfortable facility you can feel proud to walk into oh and an extremely progressive maintenance program, now what happens when you are finished? What kind of hiring options will you get? Will the airlines even recognize the schools you attended, will you have the option of bypassing the regionals and going into one of the most prestigious charter flight operations in the world? Be able to go direct from the charter company and directly into the Major Airlines? Connections with air carriers throughout the world and have former students flying anything from the A380, 787 to CRJ's and ERJ's and everything in between oh and military planes like the f16 and f22??? and like I was going to say in the beginning let's say you were like a student we saved from a school mentioned above where maybe they saved money hourly but they spent many more hours training because of the inferior instruction, no sylibus and no real direction whatsoever so it came out to be $20,000 more than our programs. These are all things to think about. From my experience in life I deal with companies that are accredited and have the ability to prove their claims. Just visit our Farmingdale Campus or Westchester Campus and I think you will agree. Now with all that I said I am not saying that all of the operators that are part 61 aren't doing the right thing I'm just saying that if there is a big price differene there must be something not right. We all pay the same for fuel, insurance, replacement parts and so on and if a company is $10 an hour or less that may be realistic but anything more something isn't right and you need to investigate why and how because it's not just money that can be saved but your life as well. Oh and one more thing, what kind of equipment are they flying 20 to 40 year old aircraft or late model technically advanced aircraft that will give you the edge when you go to get an airline job???
 
Airlines don't care where you train or what aircraft type you have flown. It's about experience levels and previous flying jobs you've held. Who can check the most boxes on the app. There isn't a "141 vs 61" box nor is there a "Cirrus vs Cessna" box.

You are obviously a recruiter with your first post. You might want to tone it down a bit to be taken seriously here. It's not a commercial site...unless you want to buy a banner ad....
 
Yes there are other options that may be cheaper but in life you get what you pay for. There are many reasons some schools are more expensive than others. One thing you need to look into is that AOA is an FAA 141 approved school and that means a heck of a lot more oversight than any part 61 school at FRG. We are inspected by the Faa all year long where these other schools only get a visit from the Feds if there is an incident or accident and they do not have to maintain their equipment to the same standards. Next is the facilities. Do you want to work with a school who works out of a car or a side of a hangar? Or do you demand a nice, comfortable and clean place to relax, study and meet people who share similar dreams as you do? Next is insurance and liability, some of the schools do not insure their aircraft for commercial use and that is a huge amount of money annually. Insurance doesn't only protect the business but the student/customer as well because if anything goes wrong you could spend the rest of your life paying for something that if the company was responsible and had your best interests in mind you would not have to deal with. Opportunity after you complete your program??? How many schools can say you will earn between 100 to 150 hours per month of flight time as a CFI especially at some of these other locations mentioned. Let's talk about saving money. I will give you an example, so let's say you can save $20 per hour working with a school that doesn't insure properly, doesn't have competent instructors with lots of experience and a nice clean comfortable facility you can feel proud to walk into oh and an extremely progressive maintenance program, now what happens when you are finished? What kind of hiring options will you get? Will the airlines even recognize the schools you attended, will you have the option of bypassing the regionals and going into one of the most prestigious charter flight operations in the world? Be able to go direct from the charter company and directly into the Major Airlines? Connections with air carriers throughout the world and have former students flying anything from the A380, 787 to CRJ's and ERJ's and everything in between oh and military planes like the f16 and f22??? and like I was going to say in the beginning let's say you were like a student we saved from a school mentioned above where maybe they saved money hourly but they spent many more hours training because of the inferior instruction, no sylibus and no real direction whatsoever so it came out to be $20,000 more than our programs. These are all things to think about. From my experience in life I deal with companies that are accredited and have the ability to prove their claims. Just visit our Farmingdale Campus or Westchester Campus and I think you will agree. Now with all that I said I am not saying that all of the operators that are part 61 aren't doing the right thing I'm just saying that if there is a big price differene there must be something not right. We all pay the same for fuel, insurance, replacement parts and so on and if a company is $10 an hour or less that may be realistic but anything more something isn't right and you need to investigate why and how because it's not just money that can be saved but your life as well. Oh and one more thing, what kind of equipment are they flying 20 to 40 year old aircraft or late model technically advanced aircraft that will give you the edge when you go to get an airline job???

AOA, is it your assertion that because someone trained at your 141 school, this was the ingredient needed to leap " Be able to go direct from the charter company and directly into the Major Airlines?"? I, and I hope anyone else, would not buy that bag of groceries. I also have a very hard time believing anyone leaving your 141 school, and going directly into "one of the most prestigious charter flight operations in the world".

Hey! That's somewhere down by the Brooklyn Bridge, isn't it?
 
Yes there are other options that may be cheaper but in life you get what you pay for. There are many reasons some schools are more expensive than others. One thing you need to look into is that AOA is an FAA 141 approved school and that means a heck of a lot more oversight than any part 61 school at FRG. We are inspected by the Faa all year long where these other schools only get a visit from the Feds if there is an incident or accident and they do not have to maintain their equipment to the same standards. Next is the facilities. Do you want to work with a school who works out of a car or a side of a hangar? Or do you demand a nice, comfortable and clean place to relax, study and meet people who share similar dreams as you do? Next is insurance and liability, some of the schools do not insure their aircraft for commercial use and that is a huge amount of money annually. Insurance doesn't only protect the business but the student/customer as well because if anything goes wrong you could spend the rest of your life paying for something that if the company was responsible and had your best interests in mind you would not have to deal with. Opportunity after you complete your program??? How many schools can say you will earn between 100 to 150 hours per month of flight time as a CFI especially at some of these other locations mentioned. Let's talk about saving money. I will give you an example, so let's say you can save $20 per hour working with a school that doesn't insure properly, doesn't have competent instructors with lots of experience and a nice clean comfortable facility you can feel proud to walk into oh and an extremely progressive maintenance program, now what happens when you are finished? What kind of hiring options will you get? Will the airlines even recognize the schools you attended, will you have the option of bypassing the regionals and going into one of the most prestigious charter flight operations in the world? Be able to go direct from the charter company and directly into the Major Airlines? Connections with air carriers throughout the world and have former students flying anything from the A380, 787 to CRJ's and ERJ's and everything in between oh and military planes like the f16 and f22??? and like I was going to say in the beginning let's say you were like a student we saved from a school mentioned above where maybe they saved money hourly but they spent many more hours training because of the inferior instruction, no sylibus and no real direction whatsoever so it came out to be $20,000 more than our programs. These are all things to think about. From my experience in life I deal with companies that are accredited and have the ability to prove their claims. Just visit our Farmingdale Campus or Westchester Campus and I think you will agree. Now with all that I said I am not saying that all of the operators that are part 61 aren't doing the right thing I'm just saying that if there is a big price differene there must be something not right. We all pay the same for fuel, insurance, replacement parts and so on and if a company is $10 an hour or less that may be realistic but anything more something isn't right and you need to investigate why and how because it's not just money that can be saved but your life as well. Oh and one more thing, what kind of equipment are they flying 20 to 40 year old aircraft or late model technically advanced aircraft that will give you the edge when you go to get an airline job???

I think it's great that you're passionate about the place you work and support.

1) Consider reducing the tone of sarcasm in your post and use the paragraph break. It's a wall of text that is hard to read on a screen. I did take the time to read everything, and that's where I detected the sarcastic/pushy tone in your email. It's easy to do, I know...we get really excited about what we can do for people - just gotta remember the audience.

2) One of the commandments of sales: Thou Shalt Not Speak Badly Of One's Competitor. Ever. Not only does it come off unprofessional, but you never know who's listening and who you might work for later. If your service/product is superior, extoll your own virtues without negatively shining light. Doing it this way, you focus on your positives and stay away from creating any mindshare for the competitor; the customer may not have even been THINKING about them, but they are now, y'know?

Good luck, and welcome to JC. This place is a fantastic resource for pilots to learn...

...and to secure new customers if you do it right!

:)
 
Yes there are other options that may be cheaper but in life you get what you pay for. There are many reasons some schools are more expensive than others. One thing you need to look into is that AOA is an FAA 141 approved school and that means a heck of a lot more oversight than any part 61 school at FRG. We are inspected by the Faa all year long where these other schools only get a visit from the Feds if there is an incident or accident and they do not have to maintain their equipment to the same standards. Next is the facilities. Do you want to work with a school who works out of a car or a side of a hangar? Or do you demand a nice, comfortable and clean place to relax, study and meet people who share similar dreams as you do? Next is insurance and liability, some of the schools do not insure their aircraft for commercial use and that is a huge amount of money annually. Insurance doesn't only protect the business but the student/customer as well because if anything goes wrong you could spend the rest of your life paying for something that if the company was responsible and had your best interests in mind you would not have to deal with. Opportunity after you complete your program??? How many schools can say you will earn between 100 to 150 hours per month of flight time as a CFI especially at some of these other locations mentioned. Let's talk about saving money. I will give you an example, so let's say you can save $20 per hour working with a school that doesn't insure properly, doesn't have competent instructors with lots of experience and a nice clean comfortable facility you can feel proud to walk into oh and an extremely progressive maintenance program, now what happens when you are finished? What kind of hiring options will you get? Will the airlines even recognize the schools you attended, will you have the option of bypassing the regionals and going into one of the most prestigious charter flight operations in the world? Be able to go direct from the charter company and directly into the Major Airlines? Connections with air carriers throughout the world and have former students flying anything from the A380, 787 to CRJ's and ERJ's and everything in between oh and military planes like the f16 and f22??? and like I was going to say in the beginning let's say you were like a student we saved from a school mentioned above where maybe they saved money hourly but they spent many more hours training because of the inferior instruction, no sylibus and no real direction whatsoever so it came out to be $20,000 more than our programs. These are all things to think about. From my experience in life I deal with companies that are accredited and have the ability to prove their claims. Just visit our Farmingdale Campus or Westchester Campus and I think you will agree. Now with all that I said I am not saying that all of the operators that are part 61 aren't doing the right thing I'm just saying that if there is a big price differene there must be something not right. We all pay the same for fuel, insurance, replacement parts and so on and if a company is $10 an hour or less that may be realistic but anything more something isn't right and you need to investigate why and how because it's not just money that can be saved but your life as well. Oh and one more thing, what kind of equipment are they flying 20 to 40 year old aircraft or late model technically advanced aircraft that will give you the edge when you go to get an airline job???

I find it very interesting to see someone from AOA replying to this thread almost a year after I first posted. So I think it's a great idea that I post an update for JC to see!

I decided to go with the flying club, Positive Rate Gear Up, for my flight training and I honestly think it was one of the best decisions of my life. Right now I'm working on my PPL (had a few setbacks with college and working two jobs over the summer) and I'm a couple of flights away from solo (15.5 t.t.). I ending up choosing PRGU after meeting my instructor Duvern, a charter pilot with a few thousand hours of flight time, years of experience instructing, and also sits left-seat for a charter company at FRG. Yeah the aircraft are old, but they are at an unbelievably low price, especially for a place in the NYC area (around $150/hr for plane, fuel, and instructor fee combined). The planes are used every single day, all together flying hundreds of hours each month. I have never felt unsafe in them and have witness mechanics working on each plane several times. Even though it is a part 61 school, I've followed a part 141 syllabus for all my ground training and now for my in-flight training. And as far as being able to bypassing the regionals (what does that have to do with what school you attend?), just last week, as I wrapped up my post-flight briefing, I sat down in the lounge and had a nice long conversation with two Gulfstream pilots on there way to LAX. So as far as "connections" goes, I think I have a far greater chance making guys like that laugh with my student pilot blunders than buying my way in.

Now, let us discuss AOA. I took about 3 flights during my time at AOA; One discovery flight and two flights practicing straight-and-level flight and various turns. Each flight cost me about $170 for a C172 with G1000, another $70 in instructor fee (oh the instructors were actually only paid a starting salary of $14/hr), plus landing fee, plus a fuel surcharge. For every hour of flight, I'd budget at least $300 (don't forget about gas to the airport).

My very first day at AOA I sat down with an instructor for ground training. We had planned for about 2.0 hrs of ground to teach me some of the basics and get me set up in their system. We spent about 0.8 hrs together. Of that 0.8, my instructor spent about 0.6 hours chatting it up with other instructors and I later found out that he attempted to charge me for the whole 2.0 hrs I was supposed to be scheduled for. Unfortunately, I continued taking lessons in AOA and after two flights, I made my second post to this thread.

So yeah, I guess it's kinda disappointing that I won't be getting that CFI job at AOA. I wish I could afford to spend the $60,000 to earn that commercial license at your school. I really wanted to work 12 hours a day at your flight school, six days a week so I could rush off to work at a regional airline. But I kinda like the other side of the airport. Maybe they'll give me a fancy uniform once I earn that CFI :)
 
I wish I could afford to spend the $60,000 to earn that commercial license at your school. I really wanted to work 12 hours a day at your flight school, six days a week so I could rush off to work at a regional airline. But I kinda like the other side of the airport. Maybe they'll give me a fancy uniform once I earn that CFI :)

Well, TBH, you better chew that cookie pretty well. It is likely the way it will crumble.

Good luck on your future, keep the passion.
 
I find it very interesting to see someone from AOA replying to this thread almost a year after I first posted. So I think it's a great idea that I post an update for JC to see!

I decided to go with the flying club, Positive Rate Gear Up, for my flight training and I honestly think it was one of the best decisions of my life. Right now I'm working on my PPL (had a few setbacks with college and working two jobs over the summer) and I'm a couple of flights away from solo (15.5 t.t.). I ending up choosing PRGU after meeting my instructor Duvern, a charter pilot with a few thousand hours of flight time, years of experience instructing, and also sits left-seat for a charter company at FRG. Yeah the aircraft are old, but they are at an unbelievably low price, especially for a place in the NYC area (around $150/hr for plane, fuel, and instructor fee combined). The planes are used every single day, all together flying hundreds of hours each month. I have never felt unsafe in them and have witness mechanics working on each plane several times. Even though it is a part 61 school, I've followed a part 141 syllabus for all my ground training and now for my in-flight training. And as far as being able to bypassing the regionals (what does that have to do with what school you attend?), just last week, as I wrapped up my post-flight briefing, I sat down in the lounge and had a nice long conversation with two Gulfstream pilots on there way to LAX. So as far as "connections" goes, I think I have a far greater chance making guys like that laugh with my student pilot blunders than buying my way in.

Now, let us discuss AOA. I took about 3 flights during my time at AOA; One discovery flight and two flights practicing straight-and-level flight and various turns. Each flight cost me about $170 for a C172 with G1000, another $70 in instructor fee (oh the instructors were actually only paid a starting salary of $14/hr), plus landing fee, plus a fuel surcharge. For every hour of flight, I'd budget at least $300 (don't forget about gas to the airport).

My very first day at AOA I sat down with an instructor for ground training. We had planned for about 2.0 hrs of ground to teach me some of the basics and get me set up in their system. We spent about 0.8 hrs together. Of that 0.8, my instructor spent about 0.6 hours chatting it up with other instructors and I later found out that he attempted to charge me for the whole 2.0 hrs I was supposed to be scheduled for. Unfortunately, I continued taking lessons in AOA and after two flights, I made my second post to this thread.

So yeah, I guess it's kinda disappointing that I won't be getting that CFI job at AOA. I wish I could afford to spend the $60,000 to earn that commercial license at your school. I really wanted to work 12 hours a day at your flight school, six days a week so I could rush off to work at a regional airline. But I kinda like the other side of the airport. Maybe they'll give me a fancy uniform once I earn that CFI :)
So glad PRGU is working out for you!

They enourage folks to get involved with the GA & older folks at the other side of the airport. There is a lot of history at KFRG.

Before I left for Arizona, I saw from my short time working on my CFI with Duvern that he was genuine & he loved aviation & helping people achieve their goals. He's a very good & EFFECTIVE instructor. Believes that If you take good care of the students and treat them like partners and provide safe, afforable & quality instruction, they'll come back and bring others. Folks there share their enthusiasm for GA and flight. Being around the business aviation & GA aircraft mix is awesome! Corporate & transient GA folks love to talk to kill time there so its awesome place be.

As for AOA I did a little training there myself. No comment. I am & was not a fan & will leave it as that. Folks on here have seen the above post their # 1 or their rep made. Enough said. My vibe is they seek peoples money too obviously.

Hey I wish you the best in all you do @rapidoctober. Study hard. Know that Duvern has help alot of folks get their PPL. I'm sure he's told you ti Save money by doing a lot of the reading & studying on your own & ask your CFI & others about concepts you dont understand also.
 
I am sorry for the spelling mistakes but when you are posting with an iPhone its easy to do.

I meant no disrespect when it comes to part 61 flight schools, we all started out that way obviously and 50% of our programs are still part 61. What concerns me is that I know for a fact that shortcuts are being taken with several operators
at Republic Airport. What I care about is safety and quality because when an operator falls short on these things it hurts all of us in aviation industry.

Now I know we cannot be everything to everyone but just look at the cost of running a flight training business. It is NOT possible at Republic Airport to rent a 150-180 hp training aircraft with the instructor for $150, something is very wrong. At a minimum the fuel is $48 per hour at 12/02/2014 prices so that leaves you with $102 to save for engine overhaul, avionics, scheduled and unscheduled maintenance, tie-down, insurance, workers compensation insurance ($16 per hour per instructor), disability insurance, employee and aircraft taxes, facilities and facility insurance and the instructors pay. Now if anyone can show how to do all this legally and rent out late model airplanes for $150 per hour that are FAA 141 certified with the instructor and we can still stay in business please let me know so we can offer the aviation community a much more competitively priced program.

Again, I support all of us in aviation because we are such a small community and I do NOT want to anyone to think for a minute that I am trying to hurt any of the other operators at FRG. I think there are many other viable options at FRG outside of AOA but when people undercut pricing so much just do your homework and ask questions on how can they do that.

All the best to you all and have an amazing holiday season!
 
So glad PRGU is working out for you!

They enourage folks to get involved with the GA & older folks at the other side of the airport. There is a lot of history at KFRG.

Before I left for Arizona, I saw from my short time working on my CFI with Duvern that he was genuine & he loved aviation & helping people achieve their goals. He's a very good & EFFECTIVE instructor. Believes that If you take good care of the students and treat them like partners and provide safe, afforable & quality instruction, they'll come back and bring others. Folks there share their enthusiasm for GA and flight. Being around the business aviation & GA aircraft mix is awesome! Corporate & transient GA folks love to talk to kill time there so its awesome place be.

As for AOA I did a little training there myself. No comment. I am & was not a fan & will leave it as that. Folks on here have seen the above post their # 1 or their rep made. Enough said. My vibe is they seek peoples money too obviously.

Hey I wish you the best in all you do @rapidoctober. Study hard. Know that Duvern has help alot of folks get their PPL. I'm sure he's told you ti Save money by doing a lot of the reading & studying on your own & ask your CFI & others about concepts you dont understand also.
Thank you so much for your input! You have no idea how much you've helped me by simply mentioning the club. A lot of doors have been opened for me and I plan on walking through each one of them. All the best, friend.
 
so which flight school is good? I saw lots of comments about ATP, mostly negative. Then American Flyers, AoA, and one of the award winner Take Flight, as someone switching career, which one I should pick? Thx,
 
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