Abusive relationship

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Tony for you to insinuate that out of some sick pathetic need for attention I created a fictious person and situation for the soul purpose of my own entertainment is both sickning and utterly reprehensible.

How dare you say the things that you did about myself and my character when in fact you know absolutely nothing about me. I am a member in good standing of this board and not only can Doug & Kristie personally vouch my character so can several other member on this board who have had the unique pleasure of meeting me in person.

I personally think that you owe me an apoligy. You can choose to do that or not it's up to you. Another thing I simply will not allow you to do is to assume that I did absolutely nothing for Vernetta.

I listened to her gave her advice,offered her assistance.Offered to help her get in touch with a domestic violence councelors. I counceled her on how to be assertive,demand respect and regain her own personal power and assert herself in her current situation.

I spoke to my mother a licensed psychologist with a PH.D in education to get advice on how to help her. I gave her numbers to the nearest shelter. Offered to go to court with her if she got the restraining order and be either a witness or just be there to support her in the proceedings.

She choose on all fronts to not only ignore my offer of assitance but that of her own family and her dearest friends. Yet you accuse me of not supporting her and not being a true friend. Bullsh*t!!!

This started in July and I was there from the beginning. Where were you? I listened to what each and everyone of you had to say. I appreciate all the advice you have offered me in this situation. But just because you offered the advice I am by no means contractully bound or obligated to take it.

Have you Tony ever heard of words called boundries,enabler or co-dependent. You simply no matter what the case can't help someone that is simply unable or unwilling to help themselves first. Help has been offered. She refused yet you assume to make me out to be the bad guy in this situation? Have you ever heard of "Battered Women's Syndrome?" Vernetta is suffering from a classic case of it. Alienating any and all people who cares for her to protect the guy who is abusing her.

There is little or no difference between alcholism,chemical depenency or battered womens syndrome. All are in a desperate and dire situation that if not helped could result in their death. Yes an intervention is necessary but first the individual must first realize they have a problem and geniuely ask and want help. Without the person admitting that there is a problem and that they need help situation will only continue to get worse.

My mother has worked with many abused women. She informed me that situations such as this can indeed be tricky.But she was quick to remind me of my personal boundries and not to be an enabler to Vernetta.

Let me put this in an example that even you might possibly begin to understand.

Your son wants to be a pilot. "He says dad I want to be a pilot and attend XYZ flight academy tution cost $54k." You love your son and want him to suceed in life so you give him the $54k. He attends XYZ flight school and gives it half ass attention. He barely studies, stays out late partying with his friends and fails flight school. Having blown all your $54k that you gave him.
After failing flight school he is kicked out and comes home and lives with you and his behavior is unchanged if not worse. Then one day he comes to you and says dad I want to go to flight school again.This time will be different I promise. Will you loan me $54k again please?

Do you say yes...? And blindly give him the $54k. Hoping and praying that he has changed and that his words are indeed true? Or do you say. If you want to go to flight school,you will get a job and keep it, you will save your money. You will go back to school you, will show me that your serious. You will get good grades. Then when you proved to me that your serious this time with more then just empty words. Whatever ammount of money you have saved I will match or double it.

If your smart you will want to first see that your son is serious. After all $54k is a lot of money. Only if your a fool will you give him $54k again after not demonstrating a behavior pattern proving that his intent is true.

-Matthew

 

[Kristie]

Tony for you to insinuate that out of some sick pathetic need for attention I created a fictious person and situation for the soul purpose of my own entertainment is both sickning and utterly reprehensible.

How dare you say the things that you did about myself and my character when in fact you know absolutely nothing about me. I am a member in good standing of this board and not only can Doug & Kristie personally vouch my character so can several other member on this board who have had the unique pleasure of meeting me in person.

I personally think that you owe me an apoligy. You can choose to do that or not it's up to you.

Max, this thread has nothing to do with you.. this is about her.. it's about her kids.. it's about the question you asked all of us for advice...

forget about yourself for just a split second and think past yourself to what the thread continues to be about.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Max, this thread has nothing to do with you.. this is about her.. it's about her kids.. it's about the question you asked all of us for advice...

forget about yourself for just a split second and think past yourself to what the thread continues to be about.

Yes I understand that. But Tony is on a roll first attacking R2F now me. Saying that I created this thread to somehow satisy a sick deep dark desire for attention and drama.

So it kinda became about me (partly) with his insults and the constant insinuations that I have done nothing but sit back and allow this great injustice to continue.
Or that I have not taken anyones advice.
Whatever I can deal with it. What Tony and perhaps others are failing to see and understand is that I took the advice that was given here and have been greatful for it. I offered it to her and it was ignored by Vernetta what more can I do?

Yet the constant over all theme going on here is that I'm an ass. I will say again. You can't help someone who doesn't want help.
She (Vernetta) is more concerened with who her man is out effing while she is out at work then that of the safety of her or her own children.

She beat her brother up with a phone book. Stopped her cousin from helping her out of this situation. Calling the cops won't help. Because she isn't willing to press charges or leave Del Vagus.

She says he is an ass about 90% of the time and she waits,waits for that rare 10 percent of the time when he is civil to her. She thinks...hopes that she can change him and the situation will get better.

Everyone at work that is aware of her situation from her supervisor our department head and HR is concerned for her welfare.

Besides myself three of her other friends from work have been calling her trying desperately to reach her. Leaving messages on her voicemail with no reply.
Then today, Subrina a co-worker who herself is a domestic violence survivor tried to call her and her number has now been changed.

Anita her cousin has filed a police report.
The officer who took the report Anita told me said that they will investigate her claims. But that no crime has been commited and our words are mere hear say. The burden of truth lies with her.

In most cases the officer said (as I have said) the abused typically refuse to press charges against her abuser. Without any physical wounds or bruising they can only go on her (Vernetta's) word.
And her propensity to lie,cover up and make excuses for his action is blatently apparent.


-Matthew

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Listen

This is not a situation where advice from you should be given to a sick mother. Its apparent the children that live in her house are in danger as well Its your moral obligation to call the police immediately as n 'NOW' and explain what you know. This at least would get the children removed from this horrific situation. No more time should we wasted on posting the details of her perverted lifestyle that physically and mentally threatens her children.

Do the right thing and call!

Wrong...my sister graduates from UofA this fall with a degree in social work. My cousin who lives in Concorde CA. has a MSW (Masters of Socialwork) and works in the field with abused children.

Haven't talked to Pam but my sister said without substantial proof /evidence of child endagerment the children simply will not be removed.
Removing children from a house is the very last measures taken in situations such as these. The first step would be offering counciling assistance to the mother and trying to find avenues for her to seek help. There are steps and procedures to follow first. Only with a proven track record and a continuing escalation of danger/neglect to a child's welfare will the children become temporary wards of the state.

A social workers first and most important duty is to keep a family together not split them apart!

-Matthew

 

[TonyC]

Tony for you to insinuate that out of some sick pathetic need for attention I created a fictious person and situation for the soul purpose of my own entertainment is both sickning and utterly reprehensible.

What is sickening is that you refuse to take action to responsibly address the problems you described in Post #1.

How dare you say the things that you did about myself and my character when in fact you know absolutely nothing about me. I am a member in good standing of this board and not only can Doug & Kristie personally vouch my character so can several other member on this board who have had the unique pleasure of meeting me in person.

I suppose it's my great loss that I've not had that unique "pleasure." But you know what, Jenius, it's not about you. It's about a woman and her children, and the bodily harm that threatens them. If they are not in harm's way, you lied to us in Post #1.

I personally think that you owe me an apoligy. You can choose to do that or not it's up to you. Another thing I simply will not allow you to do is to assume that I did absolutely nothing for Vernetta.

I don't owe you an apoligy, whatever that is, or even an apology. I, along with several other members, have been patient and helpful. Your character witness, Kristie, has also offered advice that you ignored. I resorted to a more blunt approach in an attempt to get your attention. Clearly, that approach also failed. However, I do not regret taking that approach, nor will I apologize for doing it.

You did something for her, alright, and I'll address that below.

I listened to her gave her advice,offered her assistance.Offered to help her get in touch with a domestic violence councelors. I counceled her on how to be assertive,demand respect and regain her own personal power and assert herself in her current situation.

I spoke to my mother a licensed psychologist with a PH.D in education to get advice on how to help her. I gave her numbers to the nearest shelter. Offered to go to court with her if she got the restraining order and be either a witness or just be there to support her in the proceedings.

She choose on all fronts to not only ignore my offer of assitance but that of her own family and her dearest friends. Yet you accuse me of not supporting her and not being a true friend. Bullsh*t!!!

This started in July and I was there from the beginning. Where were you? I listened to what each and everyone of you had to say. I appreciate all the advice you have offered me in this situation. But just because you offered the advice I am by no means contractully bound or obligated to take it.

Have you Tony ever heard of words called boundries,enabler or co-dependent.

Funny you should ask that, Jenius. Yes, I've heard of those words. Wanna guess which one describes you? By allowing her to drag you along and listen to your "counsel," you have become an enabler. You are feeding into her sickness, and not actually helping her. A true friend would do what is good for her, despite her protests to the contrary. It's so easy to pick up the phone and dial 911, but you refuse. You are a participant in the drama.

You simply no matter what the case can't help someone that is simply unable or unwilling to help themselves first. Help has been offered.

Did you even read the first post you wrote? The woman and her children, if you accurately describe their situation, don't just need help, they need a rescue. 911

She doesn't need your advice, she doesn't need your ear, she doesn't need your momma's degree, she needs to be rescued.

Let me put this in an example that even you might possibly begin to understand.

Your son wants to be a pilot. "He says dad I want to be a pilot and attend XYZ flight academy tution cost $54k." You love your son and want him to suceed in life so you give him the $54k.

NOPE. Already wrong. Son already knows that what he wants in life, he'll have to work for. The preferred method is to study hard, get good grades, and earn scholarships. The next method is get a job and earn the money. He already knows I'm not paying his way. No free rides.

That's because I love my kids, and I want them to succeed in life.

Sorry to screw up your story.

Yes I understand that. But Tony is on a roll first attacking R2F now me. Saying that I created this thread to somehow satisy a sick deep dark desire for attention and drama.

I did not attack ready2fly, and I did not attack you. I made several posts patiently offering you advice. With each post where it appeared you were unwilling to follow the advice of the majority of contributors to this thread, I became more stern. Even at my sternest, I did not use the word "ass" or "jackass" -- you interjected that, and made the comparison to ready2fly's attack on me.

My suggestion that you have misrepresented the situation is simply an analysis, a possible explanation for why you refuse to take anyone's advice. Either you're being stubborn and stupid, or it's not really as bad as you first post described.

Yet the constant over all theme going on here is that I'm an ass.

Let's be clear here. I did not call you an ass. Because of your refusal to heed advice given to you by practically every contributor to this thread, I called you a moron.

Please, convince us you're not. I'll be happy to retract the comment when you demonstrate you don't deserve it.

Alas, it appears that nothing will persuade you to do the right thing. I can only take comfort that I don't receive any Phoenix newspapers, and will likely not read about the woman's death.

You won't enjoy that comfort, now, will you?





.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

...Okay dude. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You must be the type to quit your job to stay home to "police" your child or loved one if (hypothetically) they were to ever become a crack head.

Don't take offense at this hypothetical situation. But would you let a family member on drugs stay in your house. Would you mortgage your house or sell all your valuables to get money to pay off a loved ones debt if they had a gambling problem? These are forms of enabling.

By allowing her to drag you along and listen to your "counsel",you have become an enabler. Your feeding into her sickness,and not actually helping her.

On that point we can agree. Which is why I stopped giving advice.Washed my hands of the situation and feel my conscious is clear.

You can only talk so long to someone, you can suggest that they seek help talk to them about counseling. But if their an adult you can't forcibly hospitalize them,just as I can't forcibly remove Vernetta or her children from this situation. Ultimately the only person that can seek to turn around their situation is the person with the problem.

That I guess is what people are failing to understand. The police have been called. A report has been filed. But has anything changed is anything any different? Is she and her children still in harms way...yes! Did calling the police and filing a report do anything at all to change her or her childrens situation...sadly no.

So instead of focusing on a calling the police which again had no effect. I wanted to educate a women who felt that she had no options on how to get out of her situation. Let her know that she does indeed have power and could regain that power and be a victim no longer. Because it is ultimately her who has the real power to end this sick affair, when she gets sick & tired enough she will end this situation and leave him and seek shelter from her troubles not the police.

Did that have a profound affect on the situation. Sadly I would have to say no also. So I give up and wash my hands of the entire situation in utter frustration.

A true friend would do what is good for her, despite her protest to the contrary.

Being a friend a real friend does not mean that you allow people to take advantage of you or your friendship. Being a friend is knowing your own personal boundries and knowing when someone has crossed them. Letting them know that if they choose to continue to go down that road because of their own personal choices that you won't follow. It's called tuff love.

Again he has hit her attempted suffication and choked her. He has a prior criminal record and a history of violence. What I think all are failing to hear is that she is unwilling to leave him. It would be so very easy for her call the police herself and have him arrested for parole violation. Yet he is still there.

She doesn't need your advice,she doesn't need your ear,she doesn't need your momma's degree,she needs to be rescued.

After reading that I can tell that you have never done any kind of counciling or crisis management. No one can be "rescued" that doesn't want to be helped first. Furthermore no one should be rescued a rescuer is nothing but a person who continues to enable the person who has the problem. A person who wants help not rescue must first ask for it and follow through with the steps to get aid for their problem.
To continue to try to assist someone that doesn't want to be helped is called enabling and being co-depenedent.

As harsh as it sounds there is only so much that you can do before you have to raise your hands to the sky and say I'M DONE. I have done all that I could. She has continuely refused aid from both family and friends. Next you will say that we her family and friends should sneak into her house under cover of darkness and forcibly remove her from the situation.

At what point would you stop,step back and access the situation and let go.

Furthermore Tony who are you to question the advice of a trained professional. You have no PH.D your not properly trained in matters of addiction,interventions or crisis management. For that matter niether am I. This is akin to the the a.net guys aruging flight characteristic of a 757 with a trained pilot,because they performed the similar approach on MSFS. I address this as you say the advice given to me by my mother does little to help Vernetta situation.

I just wish that someone could see all my points that I have made not only in this post but others to maybe begin to understand that no matter what I do or say no ammount of assitance will help this lady if she first doesn't admit that A.) She has a problem that is beyond her means to control. B.) Honestly ask and seek aid and education to escape the grasp of this sick and potentially dangerous situation. That she continually keeps herself in.


-Matthew

 

[Sprint100]

No one can be "rescued" that doesn't want to be helped first

Contrair monfrair, people not wanting help get it against their wishes all the time. I don't have the exact statistic but some finally see the light after they've been "rescued".

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Contrair monfrair, people not wanting help get it against their wishes all the time. I don't have the exact statistic but some finally see the light after they've been "rescued".

Thats not a rescue that's a forced intervention!

-Matthew

 

[Sprint100]

Thats not a rescue that's a forced intervention!

-Matthew

Then you are fully aware

 

[TonyC]

...Okay dude. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You must be the type to quit your job to stay home to "police" your child or loved one if (hypothetically) they were to ever become a crack head.

What in heaven's name are you talking about?!?! What gave you the idea that personal responsibility was being abdicated? Why do you keep referring to crack? Can you maintain a cogent train of thought?

Don't take offense at this hypothetical situation. But would you let a family member on drugs stay in your house. Would you mortgage your house or sell all your valuables to get money to pay off a loved ones debt if they had a gambling problem? These are forms of enabling.

NO, and NO. What's your point?

You can only talk so long to someone, you can suggest that they seek help talk to them about counseling. But if their an adult you can't forcibly hospitalize them,just as I can't forcibly remove Vernetta or her children from this situation. Ultimately the only person that can seek to turn around their situation is the person with the problem.

Nobody has asked you to forcibly hospitalize anyone, nobody has suggested you forcibly remove anyone. We've only asked you to do something a normal five-year-old can do -- pick up the telephone and press 9, 1, and 1.

That I guess is what people are failing to understand. The police have been called. A report has been filed.

If people fail to understand this, it's because you have failed to mention it. Nowhere have you mentioned that someone has called the police. You said she was beaten, strangled, and suffocated, but not once mentioned the police.


Can you keep your story straight, please?

I wanted to educate a women who felt that she had no options on how to get out of her situation. Let her know that she does indeed have power and could regain that power and be a victim no longer. Because it is ultimately her who has the real power to end this sick affair, when she gets sick & tired enough she will end this situation and leave him and seek shelter from her troubles not the police.

You educate her, huh? :insane: Can you tell us, again, what your professional credentials are?

We can only pray that she'll come to that point before she expires, because you're certainly not going to help her escape sooner.

So I give up and wash my hands of the entire situation in utter frustration.

Sadly, there is no need for you to be frustrated. You've been given simple and specific actions that you can take that WILL help, yet you refuse to listen and act. Shall we help you dig that ostrich hole?

Being a friend a real friend does not mean that you allow people to take advantage of you or your friendship. Being a friend is knowing your own personal boundries and knowing when someone has crossed them. Letting them know that if they choose to continue to go down that road because of their own personal choices that you won't follow. It's called tuff love.

You call this tough love? You won't listen to me, so I'm washing my hands - - that's "tuff" love. That is not love, it is selfishness. Rather than stick your neck out to help a woman who is clearly in danger, you're willing to forget about her and let the heinous nature of the boyfriend takes its course. Yeah, that's really tough, Jenius.

Again he has hit her attempted suffication and choked her. He has a prior criminal record and a history of violence. What I think all are failing to hear is that she is unwilling to leave him. It would be so very easy for her call the police herself and have him arrested for parole violation. Yet he is still there.

Idiot! If she were of sound mind and clear vision, she wouldn't be where she is, and that's EXACTLY why she needs a friend to make the call FOR her. "It would be so very easy," you say, "for her to call the police." Well, of course it's easy - - that's what we've been telling you for days. Why do you insist it's NOT easy, or it WON'T be effective, or YOU'RE not the one that should do it.

She obviously cannot make a sound decision on her own - - there's no need to argue the why's and wherefore's, because you already know she's screwed up. Waiting for her to suddenly come to her senses and make a smart judgment is like waiting for a baby to climb back in her crib. It ain't happnin'! SHE NEEEDS SOMEONE TO CALL THE POLICE FOR HER.

After reading that I can tell that you have never done any kind of counciling or crisis management. No one can be "rescued" that doesn't want to be helped first.

Wrong.

Furthermore no one should be rescued a rescuer is nothing but a person who continues to enable the person who has the problem.

Tell the police that they're enabling her self-beating when they go to her house and find the bruises and marks on her cheek and neck.

I can't believe the psychobabble that you're... no, wait... I can believe it, and perhaps I'm gaining a deeper insight in to whay you're unable to help your "friend."

A person who wants help not rescue must first ask for it and follow through with the steps to get aid for their problem.
To continue to try to assist someone that doesn't want to be helped is called enabling and being co-depenedent.

more psychobabble

As harsh as it sounds there is only so much that you can do before you have to raise your hands to the sky and say I'M DONE. I have done all that I could.

No, you have not. You have yet to do the simplest, yet most important thing. Dial 9 - 1 - 1

She has continuely refused aid from both family and friends. Next you will say that we her family and friends should sneak into her house under cover of darkness and forcibly remove her from the situation.

Are you daft?!?!? How much clearer can my advice be??!?!?

AGAIN - - do this:


DIAL 9 1 1

I already even told you what to say. You only have to fill in a few blanks - - her name, her cell phone number, and her place of employment. Leave the rest to the professionals.

At what point would you stop,step back and access the situation and let go.

Right after I called 9 - 1 - 1

Furthermore Tony who are you to question the advice of a trained professional. You have no PH.D your not properly trained in matters of addiction,interventions or crisis management. For that matter niether am I. This is akin to the the a.net guys aruging flight characteristic of a 757 with a trained pilot,because they performed the similar approach on MSFS. I address this as you say the advice given to me by my mother does little to help Vernetta situation.

The difference is you're apparently so close to the problem, or so messed up yourself, that you refuse the sound advice of several others. It is only when you refuse that advice, and then receive the feedback from those who disagree with your course of action, or inaction, as it were, that you produce these lines of reasoning, these professional opinions, and these revised facts.


Driving down the road, you see a young boy, perhaps 7 or 8 years old, walking at a brisk pace with a determination to get somewhere, but he is strangely out of place. The road, after all, is a limited access road (think Interstate) with a high volume of vehicles travelling at very fast speed limits, and no sidewalk. You pull over to the side of the road to find out what the problem is, because there clearly IS a problem. He explains that he is running away from home because he is unhappy with the decision his mother just made about an issue dear to his heart. In his haste to leave home, he neglected to dress properly for the adventure, and the cold temperatures will soon overcome him. Despite your offer for help, however, he refuses a ride, and he refuses the offer of a coat. He will not get in your car, because he has learned about people like you, and you're not willing (wisely, I might add) to force him into your car. In your judgment, he will in short time either die of exposure or be hit by a passing car. Yet, he insists on proceding on his journey to "away."


You did everything you could do. Perhaps you called friends and asked their advice as to how best to convince the young boy to accept your warm coat, or ride with you to the next exit. Still, the boy refuses your help, and he continues to walk.


Do you have the guts to call the police?




Really?

I just wish that someone could see all my points that I have made not only in this post but others to maybe begin to understand that no matter what I do or say no ammount of assitance will help this lady if she first doesn't admit that A.) She has a problem that is beyond her means to control. B.) Honestly ask and seek aid and education to escape the grasp of this sick and potentially dangerous situation. That she continually keeps herself in.

You haven't made points, you've only made excuses. You're only rationalizing to soothe your conscience.



.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Tony...I grow tired with you and these constant arguements we seem to be having online. Maybe my post didn't come out too clear because I'm typing in between working accnts.
Not sure... but you need take a re-read of my last two post the police have been called and a report has been filed. Her cousin did it at my behest.
What I have been trying to tell mostly you but anyone else listening is that calling the police isn't some magic fix. Case in point she is still at her house living with that fool and her children haven't been removed from a potentially deadly situation.

What was accomplished? Sorry to say nothing,not when the burden of proof is left to her and she has a proven track record of making excuses for his cowardly actions and lying to protect him. She is her own worst enemy. Next you'll be telling me that I should be calling the police daily if not weekly for updates. Failing to do that I'm not a good friend.

Its not selfishness if I wash my hands of her and this situation. Its me being frustrated having reached my boundries with her and being unwilling to go any futher. What more can I do to try to help her if she refuses to help herself?

If the police do investigate and all seems well when they stop over and she doesn't speak up. Or she lies to protect him. Or she doesn't at some point after that seek some sort of assitance. My conscious is clear.
I listened to her attempted to educate her on being assertive and taking back control of her life. After communication stopped,her number disconnected or changed the police were called and report filed.

There is nothing more I can or am willing to do.

-Matthew

 

[TonyC]

There is nothing more I can or am willing to do.

You could have saved us all some grief if you had just made this your first post.


Funny, we thought you really wanted advice.



:whatever:







.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

You could have saved us all some grief if you had just made this your first post.


Funny, we thought you really wanted advice.



:whatever:


.

Your right Tony not only am I a bad friend I'm a horrible,selfish person. Who only gives a damn about myself and I failed both myself and my friend horribly.

Tony your an ass you know that. Since the time that I started this thread info came out that was unbeknowest to me in hte beginning that made me stop,exmine my priorities and montior my own personal boundries.

But what you fail to recognize is that I have been there for Vernetta from the from the beginning. Talking and listening at first,offering advice offering to take her to court to get a restraining order. And finally assisting her cousin Anita in calling the police and filing a police report what more can I do for her???

Let me guess I'm not being her friend...right?

Well how about I stand outside her house and chloroform her the first chance that I get and relocate her unconscious body to a safe house that I have set up for her. Or I can take time off work get her address from Anita and break my neck trying to get her to come to her senses.

Geez when does it end...Look point blank if she is stupid enough to get her self into this situation. Refuse the help of friends and family. Shut out the people that truely care for her for some worthless loser. Risk her job her car and her house to take leave just to "police" this no good loser,putting her immature needs above that of herself and her children.

Then she is the fool. I have done ENOUGH I was there for her when she needed me and called the police to intervene on her behalf because she was too weak to do it her damn self. If she lies and covers for him and protects him from jail again thats her fault.

Call me an evil heartless bastard if you want. I have done everything humanly possible for her. The next move is in her court. I don't believe in coddling someone or being co-dependent or an enabler.

I will end by saying what I have always said. I am no rescuer thats the fire department and Supermans job. There is no helping someone that doesn't want help.

-Matthew

 

[Sprint100]

I am no rescuer thats the fire department and Supermans job.

Makes me feel comfortable to know my wife and daughter are being watched out for when I'm not around

There is no helping someone that doesn't want help.

Honestly, some don't know how to help themselves or even ask for help. Her mind is twisted from jump. Point is we all know it is wrong.
Forget the talkin', shoot me her number or her cousin's number and I'll make it pop-the-pop off, the legal way.
You know my dealy if I get caught up.

Now that I think about it, there is no way Chase's HR dept. can't release her info to the police. I handle confidential info at work and had to give up secret HIPAA files to the authorities.

 

[TonyC]

I have been there ... assisting her cousin Anita in calling the police and filing a police report



...


I ... called the police to intervene on her behalf ...

The story chages once again. First, nobody had called the police, then somebody had called the police, now you tell us it was YOU that helped the cousin call the police, but before you finish the post you'd have us believing it was YOU that called the police.


I doubt the police have been called at all.


Drama queen.

Tony your an ass you know that.

Yeah, well, you're a lousy speller, so there. My feelings are so hurt. Does that make you feel more masculine?

... what more can I do for her???

Call 9 1 1


Now, stop asking this question. You get the same answer every time.

Well how about I stand outside her house and chloroform her the first chance that I get and relocate her unconscious body to a safe house that I have set up for her. Or I can take time off work get her address from Anita and break my neck trying to get her to come to her senses.

How about you stop making up "how abouts"?



No man is so blind as he who refuses to see.

Call me an evil heartless bastard if you want.

Why? Would that fill some self-deprecating urge that you secretly harbor? Do you get off on being humiliated? Do you enjoy acting like an idiot? Does it feel good to you in some sick way to be criticized and verbally abused?



Sorry - - I'm not participating. I'm sticking to moron.

I have done everything humanly possible for her.

No, you have not.

I will end by saying what I have always said. I am no rescuer thats the fire department and Supermans job.

(Pssssst.... Superman is a fictitious character. Is Vernetta real or fictitious?)

The Fire Department only needs a phone call. Will you stand by and watch a house burn rather than call the Fire Department?


And you didn't respond to my hypothetical question from the previous post. The young boy is walking along the side of the dangerous highway. Will you abandon him, too?





.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Yes I understand that. But Tony is on a roll first attacking R2F now me. Saying that I created this thread to somehow satisy a sick deep dark desire for attention and drama.

So it kinda became about me (partly) with his insults and the constant insinuations that I have done nothing but sit back and allow this great injustice to continue.
Or that I have not taken anyones advice.
Whatever I can deal with it. What Tony and perhaps others are failing to see and understand is that I took the advice that was given here and have been greatful for it. I offered it to her and it was ignored by Vernetta what more can I do?

Yet the constant over all theme going on here is that I'm an ass. I will say again. You can't help someone who doesn't want help.
She (Vernetta) is more concerened with who her man is out effing while she is out at work then that of the safety of her or her own children.

She beat her brother up with a phone book. Stopped her cousin from helping her out of this situation. Calling the cops won't help. Because she isn't willing to press charges or leave Del Vagus.

She says he is an ass about 90% of the time and she waits,waits for that rare 10 percent of the time when he is civil to her. She thinks...hopes that she can change him and the situation will get better.

Everyone at work that is aware of her situation from her supervisor our department head and HR is concerned for her welfare.

Besides myself three of her other friends from work have been calling her trying desperately to reach her. Leaving messages on her voicemail with no reply.
Then today, Subrina a co-worker who herself is a domestic violence survivor tried to call her and her number has now been changed.

Anita her cousin has filed a police report.
The officer who took the report Anita told me said that they will investigate her claims. But that no crime has been commited and our words are mere hear say. The burden of truth lies with her.

In most cases the officer said (as I have said) the abused typically refuse to press charges against her abuser. Without any physical wounds or bruising they can only go on her (Vernetta's) word.
And her propensity to lie,cover up and make excuses for his action is blatently apparent.


-Matthew

Tony look at the above mentioned post. Then scroll back and look for said previous post and look at the date and time said post was posted:

December 20th,2005 23:51

The police have been called. A police report has been filed. If you think that I would would lie and say that the police were called just to apease you, me thinks your the one thats daft not me.

To answer you scenario. Yes I would pick the kid up against his protest and drive him to the authorities.

-Matthew

 

[mtsu_av8er]

My left pinky toe hurts . . .

 

[TonyC]

Tony look at the above mentioned post. Then scroll back and look for said previous post and look at the date and time said post was posted:

December 20th,2005 23:51

The police have been called. A police report has been filed. If you think that I would would lie and say that the police were called just to apease you, me thinks your the one thats daft not me.

OK, if you want to play the timeline game, I can play along.


I'll even convert these to your time zone, so as not to confuse you.

Post #1 December 13th, 2005, 10:38:

Hey...just wanted to get some quick advice from peeps in this forum.

...

A friend of mine ... is involved in a domestic violence situation with her current live in boyfriend.
...

... he was there choking her and punching her. He dragged her in to her room and preceeded to continue hititng her.
Then preceeded to sufficate her with a plastic bag.

...

... she is worried that if he goes through with his many threats and beat her again. As she said maybe next time to the death.

...

... she is just going to deal with him living there out of fear that he will hurt/kill her or her children and hope that one day soon he will just leave.

I told her he won't.

OK, that's where you began the thread, describing physical abuse, battery, and the threat of life to the woman and her children. When she told you she would wait for him to leave, you told her he won't leave.

You seemed to comprehend the seriousness of the situation, and seemed genuine in your request for advice.

Post #2 December 13th, 2005, 10:46:

She needs to talk to the police and get him locked up.

Didn't take long for someone to come up with the idea of calling the police, did it?

Post #4 December 13th, 2005, 10:53:

Plain and simple, the police need to be called.

...

Max, do your friend a favor and inform the police and other authorites.

Same advice. Except for Sprint100's advice to let Big Bubba do the work, the advice is unanimous so far.

Post #5 December 13th, 2005, 11:01:

Only three ways to go about it......the police, Big Bubba, or deal with it until it's time to die. Sorry Max, but those are the cold hard facts.

Sprint100 gets a bit more serious, and it's unanimous - call the police.

Post #7 December 13th, 2005, 11:23:

Tell her if she needs the police to get there fast to call 911 dont say anything and hang up.

Post #8 December 13th, 2005, 11:30:

Her friend Shannon ... says she has kids and a responsibility to her kids to protect them.

...

I'm kinda at my wits end with her and this situation. I want to do something but not sure what.

Here's where you publicly acknowledge that you recognize Vernetta's responsibility to the children, and you publicly acknowledge that you either have not been listening, or you refuse to take the advice of your friends - - the ones whom you asked for advice. Notice, no posts by me yet.

From the same post:

I told her I'd come down there and beat Del Vagus down for her I'm gay but maaaan I can scrap!

All talk, no action.
Post #9 December 13th, 2005, 11:30:

Matt,
help her find a battered women's shelter in the area that she and her kids can go to. There is a national abuse hotline number that will help her out - 1800-799-SAFE they can help her find a shelter ...

Same theme ...


http://forums.jetcareers.com/showpost.php?p=296107&postcount=9

USMCMech agrees: Post #10 December 13th, 2005, 11:34

SteveC suggests The National Domestic Violence Hotline. and includes a link: Post #11[/u[] December 13th, 2005, 11:36

Stevel agrees: Post #12 December 13th, 2005, 14:30

Kristie says, "just get her outta there..." : Post #13 December 13th, 2005, 15:49

FatBastard says, "Tell her to call the cops ..." Post #15 December 13th, 2005, 17:21

stuckingfk says, "... call the police and move the woman away from the situation." Post #17 December 13th, 2005, 22:41

Kristie suggested your Employee Assistance Program: Post #18[/u[] December 13th, 2005, 22:53



The next day, in Post #19 (December 14th, 2005, 12:27), you tell us about your attempts to counsel her, and inform us that the abuse is still continuing -- she was threatened the previous night. Furthermore, the situation has worsened, because she now has no place to escape and nobody to look for her when she doesn't show up for work, since she's now on a leave of absence.


The situation is worse, the advice is consistent, and you refuse the advice.


Post #20 December 14th, 2005, 11:30:

something's not adding up..

Yeah, I agree. But I still did not comment. (How is this fitting your "Tony attacked Max" theory?)

seagull casts his vote for her using the system, the assistance for women:
Post #21 December 14th, 2005, 15:04


How many kids is she responsible for, how many souls are at stake?
Post #22 December 14th, 2005, 16:22:

She is 31 yrs. old and has five kids.

And you've still done nothing to help her or the five kids - - nothing.

Kristie:
Post #23 December 14th, 2005, 17:13:

I think the only people that can help her at this point is a domestic shelter and the cops!

Finally, I can't remain silent any longer.
Post #24 December 14th, 2005, 19:20:

You've already been given the correct answer - - why are you prolonging the conversation with the woman? You're not doing her any favors by talking to her, texting with her, comforting her, etc. You've already established that he is a threat to her safety - - no more details are required, or even relevant.



TELL HER TO CALL THE SHELTER!

NO MORE DELAYS!


Tell her to call the shelter, GO to the shelter, and don't call you back unless it's FROM the shelter.


There she will have resources available to best deal with her specific circumstances.


Wanna do her a favor? Call the cab.

Now, how you could construe that as an attack on you is beyond me. I consider it to be very direct advice, but not personal in the least, and not even close to being an attack.


SteveC agrees, "Tony and Kristie are right." (Post #25 December 14th, 2005, 19:37)


And then a day and a half go by with no updates from you. 40 hours.

Doug Taylor agrees, "There is a wide variety of options available for her and she needs to take advantage of that before she gets killed." (Post #27 December 16th, 2005, 11:58)


Another 12 hours transpires, and Kristie offers you resources from a professional, including links to shelters, law enforcement, and educational resources for battered women:
Post #29 December 16th, 2005, 23:24:

One of the lady's over at PF (PilotFamilies.com) had this to say:
--
Hi Kristie,

I saw the thread on JC about domestic violence. Here's info to pass along:

http://phoenix.gov/POLICE/dvlear1.html

http://www.sboard.org/SHELTERS/AZ.HTM

http://www.law.arizona.edu/depts/clinics/dvc/

http://www.azag.gov/victims_rights/D...nce/index.html

Finally, we hear from you again, (Post #30, December 17th, 2005, 11:34) now some 67 hours since your last report. After receiving the same advice over and over, and being encouraged to have her seek shelter, after being given links to outstanding resources, all you can talk about is her having a baby with the loser, and birth control.

No report of having contacted authorities.


Another 36 hours go by with no posts from anyone, and Kristie asks (Post #31, December 18th, 2005, 23:09), "so? did you get the to her so she can get out of there or are you continuing to just sit there and listen?"


Your answer:
Post #32 December 19th, 2005, 00:11:

Well since you ask if you remember when I said that she called me back when Vagus was in the shower. That was the last time I spoke with her. Since then she hasn't been answering my calls or text. The last time I called her phone a mans voice answered and said "stop calling here she can't talk to you no more...click."

So I'm done...more or less. After talking to her cousin and her other friends at work they also haven't heard from her in a good week. So she is now completely under his control. Completely cut off from anyone and everyone. So yea I'm done more or less.

So, let's get this straight. Your "friend" is in a dangerous situation along with her five children where she fears for her life, and where she has been beaten and suffocated, and now nobody has heard from her in a week, except for you. (You said she called you at lunch just five days ago, see Post #22, December 14th, 2005, 16:22.)

Now, it's not out of an abundance of care or concern about your personal welfare that I felt compelled to interject my opinion in the matter. I don't know you from Adam, and have no desire to meet you. Don't take that as a compliment or an insult, it's neutral. But you did lead us all to believe that a woman and her children ARE at risk of bodily harm, and that you have done nothing to help her, and now you're just going to walk away from your so-called friend.

That is foolishness.

Again, you received this advice, this simple instruction, this tiny little thing that you could do to help her, to help her children, to avoid a death, perhaps six deaths.

Post #33 December 19th, 2005, 07:12:

Call the police - - 9-1-1 - - the woman needs help.








Drop the mouse, and pick up the phone - - NOW.

Kristie again agrees:
Post #36 December 19th, 2005, 12:53:

... at least go in, with her family, to the police station to talk to them about the best options...

If anything, the police could stop by, check on her.. handcuff him in a car while they're talking to her so that she doesn't feel "at risk"...if anyone can get her & the kids to a domestic violence shelter, it'd be them! that'd be her first step.. and then she could have the shelter help with everything else....

the least that can be done is a police checkup...
then again, for all you know, that man's voice saying "stop calling here she can't talk to you no more".. might mean he already killed her...but someone's gotta worry about the kids in the picture here!! even if *she* is a lost cause.. someone's got to help the kids!

the least that should be done is a police check up on her and the kids!

[EDIT: emphasis added]

Then you start objecting to my use of the word moron, comparing it to ready2fly's calling me a jackass, and offer nothing but lame excuses as to why you won't pick up the phone and call 911. (Post #38, December 19th, 2005, 13:27) "I have done all I that I can," you proclaim.

NO, you haven't. All you've done is talk to her, and walk away.

No mention of calling the police, or helping anyone fill out a police report.

Sprint100 agrees with me - - even though my approach was blunt:
Post #39 December 19th, 2005, 17:20):

Personally, I'd wipe my hands clean after I called the police.

...

At least it would be documented, in case she came to her senses later or had to really call the police herself, he'd be taken care of.

...

She got you involved and I would call the cops whether she liked it or not. Plus, a life is at least worth a phone call.

[EDIT: Emphasis added]

Your response Post #40, December 19th, 2005, 18:36):
[paraphrase]

Y'all just don't understand.

I don't know enough to call the police.

Besides, the guy that might kill her is on probation and in anger management classes.

My conscious is clear

[/paraphrase]

Did I miss a part in there where you called the police, or helped file a police report? Didn't think so.




December 19th, 2005, 22:05, Post #43: Doug Taylor advises, "Help her get the ball rolling... Enough talky, bro!"

You respond with more excuses about how and why you can't call the police (Post #44, December 20th, 2005, 01:06):

...I'm not sure what to do, ...

So I'm at a loss as to what I could do ...

... unsure how to best help her by calling the police, ...

What do I say ... [?]

Hey, Jenius, listen up to what everyone has been telling you - - call the police!

NO? I see, you still aren't convinced that calling the police is a good idea, and you certainly have not done it.

JEP gives you a suggestion as to how to get her address (Post #45, December 20th, 2005, 01:44).

I even told you what to tell the 911 operator, with no more information than what you've already told us, and two other details to which you are privy and we are not, her Cell Phone number, and her place of employment. (Post #46, December 20th, 2005, 08:05).

For that, you called me an ass. You told us again about Del Vagus's record of violence, and repeated your objection to calling the police.


I gotta tell you, Jenius, if I knew who this woman was, I'd just forward the Police Department a copy of this thread and let them take it from there. The frustrating thing here is that YOU are the one that has the critical information, and YOU are the one who refuses to put it to good use. Unfortunately, we have to deal with the drama queen.


Now Kristie has a change of heart for some reason. (Post #49, December 20th, 2005, 11:09) Don't do anything, she advises, because anything you do might get the woman in more trouble. There's noting you can do, she warns. And nothing is exactly what you're content to do.

Sprint disagrees with Kristie, (Post #50, December 20th, 2005, 12:19), advising that until somebody calls the cops, he "wouldn't chill just yet."

No way I'd sit by the wayside and let family, even a homie, get abused like that. So many folks allowing this to go on. Whoever has her contact info/adress/ whatever needs to call the cops or have somebody go down their to put in work on Vegas or Valley or whatever his name is.

Your response? An ATC clearance, and more excuses as to why you can't or won't call the cops. (Post #51, December 20th, 2005, 13:02) Any hint here that you've called the cops or helped file a police report? Nope.

Again, in (Post #56, December 20th, 2005, 15:47), you repeat your objection to the idea of calling the police, and add your fear that you could be arrested for filing a false police report.

Oh, really? If you report facts, how could that be a false report? You have been telling the truth, haven't you, Jenius?


bunghole says, "Stop Playing Counselor!" (Post #59 December 20th, 2005, 17:50):

Listen

This is not a situation where advice from you should be given to a sick mother. Its apparent the children that live in her house are in danger as well Its your moral obligation to call the police immediately as n 'NOW' and explain what you know. This at least would get the children removed from this horrific situation. No more time should we wasted on posting the details of her perverted lifestyle that physically and mentally threatens her children.

Do the right thing and call!



[EDIT: Emphasis added.]

pullup, employing the linguistic tool of sarcasm, agrees (Post #60 December 20th, 2005, 21:17):

Who votes for "Do nothing and say 'I'm sorry' to her at her funeral?"

As of December 20th, 2005, 22:59 (Post #61) you are still adamant in your refusal to call the police. You demand an apology from me, and you cite your mommy's advice as a reason to take no action. You claim Doug and Kristie as character witnesses, even though you ignored their previous advice.

Have you called the police yet? Not that we can tell.

Kristie tries to help you focus on the important party of this discussion, Vernetta. (Post #62, December 20th, 2005, 23:17) All you can do is whine about how "Tony attacked R2F and now he attacked meeeee." (Post #63, December 20th, 2005, 23:51) You admit that you have taken no one’s advice.

And then you mention, "Anita her cousin has filed a police report."

Did you call the police? No. Did you file the report? No. Did you help file the report? No.

Anita did it. Well, at least someone seems to be interested in the woman's welfare.

Post #64, December 21st, 2005, 00:32: You refuse bunghole's advice (Do the right thing and call) by citing the expertise of your college student sister and social worker cousin. No, I got that wrong. Your social worker cousin didn't give you advice, because you didn't talk to her. It's just HAVING that cousin that makes you smart, right? No, it was your college student sister that gave her expert opinion of what the police would do.

Keep the family together, she advises.

Yeah, as long as the asphyxiation is only partial, not permanent.




Post #66, December 21st, 2005, 11:01 (about 17 hours ago): More excuses, more rationale, more "why I refuse to take the advice of practically everyone that has responded to this thread where I asked for advice." Again, you inform us that you "stopped giving advice..." and ''[w]ashed [your] hands and feel [your} conscious is clear."

Yeah, you mentioned that the "police have been called" and a "report has been filed." Interesting verb tense, there, Jenius. If you don't think we know the difference between "I called the police" and "the police were called", then you take us for idiots. You did not call the police.

Furthermore, if you had called the police, I am absolutely convinced that you would have posted, "OK, so like I called the police, and they like asked me what I wanted, and I like told them about this girl, and they like wanted to know more..." Either there would have been a desirable outcome from the phone call, or there would have been an undesirable outcome. Either way, I am sure that you would have been keen to report it. Now to attempt to sneak it in as a passive voice mention is ridiculous and unbelievable. You didn't fool me.

You still refuse to call the police.


Another attempt by me to be clear:Post #70, December 21st, 2005, 14:03:

DIAL 9 1 1

Post #71, December 21st, 2005, 15:28: More protests, and an "Oh, didn't you read back there where I told you the police were called?" Yeah, right. 4 1/2 hours earlier you snuck in a passive voice mention of a call to the police, which you didn't make. No, sorry, Jenius, that doesn't count.

Post #73, December 21st, 2005, 17:25: The story gets better as the day goes on

I have been there for Vernetta ... And finally assisting her cousin Anita in calling the police and filing a police report ...

...

I ... called the police ...

See above. First the phone call was made, then you helped Anita make the phone call, and now you made the phone call yourself.

Sorry. Your story simply does not hold water.

(That's also an accurate summary of my response, Post #75, December 22nd, 2005, 05:14)




Now, what part of the timeline have I missed?

The drama has gone on for over 9 days, and only in the last 17 hours have you mentioned something about a phone call, then changed the mention to your helping, and then a claim that you made a phone call.


Bull.






.

 

[pullup]

Man, did you have off of work today? That post took some hella-work to do

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Tony...seriously dude frack off I am completely and utterly tired of your fracking pious crap. This thread no matter my hesitation to take advice was and still about Vernetta and the safety of her children.Yet as of late you have gone out of your way ,above and beyond the call of duty and almost delighted turning this thread into some immature pissing contest between you and me.

A game that I am no longer willing to play.

I don't know what sick pleasure that you get out of posting your constant barage of insults against me concerning the safety of my friend.
So I didn't take the advice of everyone on this board at first. At the time I felt it wouldn't help her situation. Guess what it hasn't. As she is still there with Vagus possibly being abused in simply unimagable ways. The we may never know because she choose to cut of contact with her friends and family.

You call me a fracking drama queen. But you want me to somehow justify and prove my actions to you. Frack that and frack you dude. I don't know who the frack that you fracking think that I am that I have to justify any fracking think to you.

I SAID THAT I ASSISTED ANITA IN CALLING THE FRACKING POLICE AND FILING A FRACKING POLICE REPORT. Fracking believe it or not I don't fracking give a frack, you frack.

Why do you further insist on the constant name calling and the pious pissing match. When I clearly stated that I finally assited in helping this women, my friend who either can't or won't seek justice for herself and her children. What is your point? Do you care more about putting me down and being right, then getting this women out of potentially life threathening situation.

If you answer no. I'd have to disagree and say that your actions as of late prove otherwise. As soon as I stated that the police had been called. Whether you believed I assisted in the act or not our immature fued should have ended.

During the course of you entering this thread you have taken it downhill. I will freely admit that I contributed as well but no more. You claim that you also have Vernetta's best interest at heart yet you only seem to delight in pointing out my "wrongs" and calling me names.
Others have disagreed with my hesitation to call the police into this situation but none have gone the immature pious route that you have by calling me names and making character assination comments toward me.

Yet you call me a drama queen,moron and an idiot. I understand that you originally came over from flightinfo.com and the way that you have represented yourself in this thread is commonplace there.

Do me a favor and keep my fracking name outa your fracking mouth and I will do the same. I don't like you or respect you in anyway. In your short tenure here at Jetcareers you have done nothing but caused petty fights,arguements and bickering with members in good standing on this board and contributed little or nothing to Jetcareers.

Lastly DO NOT belittle the accomplishments of my family.

If you persist with your constant petty immature barage of insults and bickering toward me. I will be forced to have a moderator intervene on my behalf. I have been on JC since 2003 and never,never have I dispised or loathed someone so fowl so much as I do you. And that is unfortunate as anyone who knows me knows that my feelings of utter disgust toward you are not natural of my normally upbeat positive sarcastic fun-loving persona.


-Matthew