?? about XJ and Colgan

brewpilot

Well-Known Member
Ok so I remember hearing on here or somewhere that Express Jet thinks that if the Q's come to IAH that we will be stealing their flying and blah blah, Of course I personally think that XJ is taking flying from CAL, but any who, I was jumpseating on CAL and a that subject came up and he was telling me that he flew with an ex XJ guy that personally went up to Toronto to test the Q sim out cause supposely CAL offered it to XJ first but they turned it down so we were next on the list, SO... what I don't get if this is true, why XJ would blame us on taking flying from them when and if the Q gets to IAH, I know were not gonna take any spots from them cause the Q is huge. Anyways just thought I'd throw that out there, correct me if I'm wrong! LOL
 
This thread was worth my time. :rolleyes:

At least I got to see Rob. Hows life?

Eh. Havent done any flying all month long. Been to the airport twice. I suppose I should care about building time, but I dont care.

Hows stuff going for you?



AND HIJACKED.
 
Ok so I remember hearing on here or somewhere that Express Jet thinks that if the Q's come to IAH that we will be stealing their flying and blah blah, Of course I personally think that XJ is taking flying from CAL, but any who, I was jumpseating on CAL and a that subject came up and he was telling me that he flew with an ex XJ guy that personally went up to Toronto to test the Q sim out cause supposely CAL offered it to XJ first but they turned it down so we were next on the list, SO... what I don't get if this is true, why XJ would blame us on taking flying from them when and if the Q gets to IAH, I know were not gonna take any spots from them cause the Q is huge. Anyways just thought I'd throw that out there, correct me if I'm wrong! LOL


I haven't read the actual contract language, but I've heard that CAL scope limits the number of 70 seat JETS that can be flown outside of CAL's seniority list.

Given that XJT and CAL are both ALPA, I'm sure that when CAL management said, "How about 70 seat TURBOPROPS?", XJT was obligated to balk.

I've heard that was the stipulation in CJC getting the flying. So congrats, man. CJC management undercut both CAL and XJT BOTH when they got the Q400 deal.

.. and now you fly it for nearly the lowest rates in the industry.

Now that CJC has ALPA, expect a drive to change that. Considering that CJC's contract was damaging to CAL's pilot scope and put hundreds of XJT pilots on the street, I don't think I'd laugh about it no matter who said what.

So yeah, yuck it up. That kind of attitude will only further the loss of pay and benefits that this profession is already so sorely lacking.
 
I haven't read the actual contract language, but I've heard that CAL scope limits the number of 70 seat JETS that can be flown outside of CAL's seniority list.

Given that XJT and CAL are both ALPA, I'm sure that when CAL management said, "How about 70 seat TURBOPROPS?", XJT was obligated to balk.

I've heard that was the stipulation in CJC getting the flying. So congrats, man. CJC management undercut both CAL and XJT BOTH when they got the Q400 deal.

.. and now you fly it for nearly the lowest rates in the industry.

Now that CJC has ALPA, expect a drive to change that. Considering that CJC's contract was damaging to CAL's pilot scope and put hundreds of XJT pilots on the street, I don't think I'd laugh about it no matter who said what.

So yeah, yuck it up. That kind of attitude will only further the loss of pay and benefits that this profession is already so sorely lacking.
You take things too seriously. Its not like that kind of stuff ever actually impacts anyone.

Eh. Havent done any flying all month long. Been to the airport twice. I suppose I should care about building time, but I dont care.

Hows stuff going for you?



AND HIJACKED.
It's going well. Learning some valuable stuff about online marketing. Would much rather be sitting on reserve :(
 
I haven't read the actual contract language, but I've heard that CAL scope limits the number of 70 seat JETS that can be flown outside of CAL's seniority list.

Given that XJT and CAL are both ALPA, I'm sure that when CAL management said, "How about 70 seat TURBOPROPS?", XJT was obligated to balk.

I've heard that was the stipulation in CJC getting the flying. So congrats, man. CJC management undercut both CAL and XJT BOTH when they got the Q400 deal.

.. and now you fly it for nearly the lowest rates in the industry.

Now that CJC has ALPA, expect a drive to change that. Considering that CJC's contract was damaging to CAL's pilot scope and put hundreds of XJT pilots on the street, I don't think I'd laugh about it no matter who said what.

So yeah, yuck it up. That kind of attitude will only further the loss of pay and benefits that this profession is already so sorely lacking.

Thank You.
 
Ok so I remember hearing on here or somewhere that Express Jet thinks that if the Q's come to IAH that we will be stealing their flying and blah blah, Of course I personally think that XJ is taking flying from CAL, but any who, I was jumpseating on CAL and a that subject came up and he was telling me that he flew with an ex XJ guy that personally went up to Toronto to test the Q sim out cause supposely CAL offered it to XJ first but they turned it down so we were next on the list, SO... what I don't get if this is true, why XJ would blame us on taking flying from them when and if the Q gets to IAH, I know were not gonna take any spots from them cause the Q is huge. Anyways just thought I'd throw that out there, correct me if I'm wrong! LOL

A few things.

XJ is Mesaba, XE is ExpressJet. Or XJT if you like.

I believe that Express was offered the Q's first, but management decided that with the small number of airframes being offered, they would lose more money starting up a training/mx program for the new airframe than they would gain from the additional flying. That may or may not have been the right decision given what ExpressJet is dealing with now, but they've continued to say their focus is on the 50 seat market.

I'm not sure Colgan "stole" flying from ExpressJet, per se, but I'm sure it didn't help with the guys that went to the street eh?

I mean you have to see it from the ExpressJet perspective. ExpressJet is spun off and turned into the premier regional carrier. An entire network is setup for Continental, with excellent training, staffing and MX.

Suddendly, though, it's not good enough, and the next thing you know you see Colgan Q400's being flown for horrible pay, notoriously shoddy MX and constant pilot pushing. It's just kind of a slap in the face ya know? It's not like Colgan took the flying, it's that ExpressJet was replaced by a company that is undercutting them. I mean the anger towards CHQ largely went away I think, but I ran into folks that were incredibly angry about Colgan if only because it was obvious that the downward spiral in the industry was continuing.

But what do I know, I'm just another EWR ExpressJet FO that got sent to the street.
 
Ok so I remember hearing on here or somewhere that Express Jet thinks that if the Q's come to IAH that we will be stealing their flying and blah blah, Of course I personally think that XJ is taking flying from CAL, but any who, I was jumpseating on CAL and a that subject came up and he was telling me that he flew with an ex XJ guy that personally went up to Toronto to test the Q sim out cause supposely CAL offered it to XJ first but they turned it down so we were next on the list, SO... what I don't get if this is true, why XJ would blame us on taking flying from them when and if the Q gets to IAH, I know were not gonna take any spots from them cause the Q is huge. Anyways just thought I'd throw that out there, correct me if I'm wrong! LOL

Personally I wish XE was flying the Q400's, no disrespect to my friends at Colgan intended. I will refrain from bad-mouthing XE management on a public forum for obvious reasons, but let's just say I feel like things could've been taken in a much better direction. They don't really ask line pilots about these decisions though, and they are Continental's airframes to allocate, not Expressjet's.

Do XE pilots harbor resent toward Colgan? Most, no. Many fell for that when CHQ first came into Houston & Cleveland, but ultimately most realized that XE's own failings are not the fault of some other company. Does it hurt losing 10% of my paycheck (and a lot of my counterparts lost 50-100% of theirs), because of all these things, YES! If anything I think a lot of them feel it was short sighted to retire the 1900's, ATR's, and EMB-120's from the XE fleet only to see those frames show up as competitors a few months later.

I will say it was very discouraging in the '05-'06 period, hearing certain rampers/agents speak with venom and envy about how much Express pilots were making from Contract '04. Then there were the newsletters coming out about how replacing express (and cutting their pay) was going to help fund retirment bennies for other workers. Very machiavellian. In the end all you can do is show up to work, do the best job that you possibly can and hope that if everyone does the same, good things will happen for your company. If not, at least you did as much as you could.

I haven't read the actual contract language, but I've heard that CAL scope limits the number of 70 seat JETS that can be flown outside of CAL's seniority list.

Yes, it limits them to zero, and thankfully so, since I have to say I would like to work at a place like CAL someday. The number of <51 seat regional jets is limited to 274, unless mainline CAL gets more planes, in which case RJ's may be by a formula based on CAL's fleet size. I believe it's 3-4 RJ's per narrowbody and 5 per widebody permitted, or something similair. Unfortunately, there is no limt on turboprops up to 79 seats!

Of course every pilot group has it's 10%'ers who are going to hold an unreasonable grudge. I'm sure there are still a few CAL guys out there who feel that way about express pilots, but you can't let a few bad apples be the standard by which the group is judged.
 
Someone correct me if I am wrong since I wasnt around when Pinnacle purchased the Qs, but as far as I know the Qs were PURCHASED by Pinnacle. They are NOT CAL airframes. We arent playing a shell game with CAL.

We bought the Qs and CAL was the first one to sign a contract with them. As far as I know when CAL signed that first contract they also asked for rights to our next batch. However the ones after that can go to whoever picks them up first.
 
But but, its a jet, and jet people should get paid more than prop people.
Uhh, why? Look at the performance:

Within say a 250nm radius a Q400 will beat a ERJ to its destination most of the time, between about 250-300nm they will arrive basically the same time, after that the ERJ will start to beat the Q. All while using a considerable less amount of fuel. Saying the Q is a prop is like saying a volvo is gas powered vs a diesel. They're both very new and very advanced airframes.

So I can see how the XJT pilots might feel a little salty.


Edit: Oh... I can sense your sarcasm now
 
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