AAG to Transfer Envoy CRJ-700s to PSA

HRDiva said:
Oh you mean the wife who works three jobs to support her pilot husband who has huge school loans and who used her tax refund to pay for special medical testing for him. It revealed a need for a 4 month loa (no disability insurance) and a highly restricted diet. He just returned to work and she spent days preparing special foods for him during breaks from her three jobs.

Perhaps you refer to to wife of a Delta CA who is in stage 4 cancer while he is having affairs. He keeps telling her he's cutting her off health insurance and throwing her and their 17 year old daughter out so she can die faster.

Or perhaps the wife of a United whale pilot who discovered that his 26 year old daughter (that she cares for as if she was her natural daughter along with his 15 year old who is a paraplegic) is a heroin addict. She has spent over a week, taking off from work, trying to get her treatment while the pilot is on a trip and wonders why the daughter can't just drive herself to therapy.

There are many more examples of what gets shared on the boards by some incredibly strong and talented women who fight everyday to maintain a stabile and happy home. But I am tired and have to call my almost (because no one is) perfect husband who left the house at 4AM for a hard three day trip.
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Some people are just asses. I know it doesn't mean much, but for what it's worth, we hate working with those guys too. Usually if they are inconsiderate towards their wife and children, they are inconsiderate towards pretty much everyone else.
 
HRDiva said:
Oh you mean the wife who works three jobs to support her pilot husband who has huge school loans and who used her tax refund to pay for special medical testing for him. It revealed a need for a 4 month loa (no disability insurance) and a highly restricted diet. He just returned to work and she spent days preparing special foods for him during breaks from her three jobs.

Perhaps you refer to to wife of a Delta CA who is in stage 4 cancer while he is having affairs. He keeps telling her he's cutting her off health insurance and throwing her and their 17 year old daughter out so she can die faster.

Or perhaps the wife of a United whale pilot who discovered that his 26 year old daughter (that she cares for as if she was her natural daughter along with his 15 year old who is a paraplegic) is a heroin addict. She has spent over a week, taking off from work, trying to get her treatment while the pilot is on a trip and wonders why the daughter can't just drive herself to therapy.

There are many more examples of what gets shared on the boards by some incredibly strong and talented women who fight everyday to maintain a stabile and happy home. But I am tired and have to call my almost (because no one is) perfect husband who left the house at 4AM for a hard three day trip.
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Wow.

And just when I thought I've seen actions I consider to be low of the low from people I've worked around or with, it seems there's always a new low that can be reached, reading the descriptions of the persons above.
 
WestIndian425 said:
I prefer to use social media to better lives either through motivation, encouragement, laughter, or inspiration. The way I see it, we're never born to conform to our environment, but instead take command over it.
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+1 same here. I agree 100%. Not everyone is of your quality. imagine how advanced humanity could be if we build up vs destroy.
 
Derg said:
How?
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Management went fishing with these planes and PSA bit.

Obviously management has the right to move planes as they please I just don't like watching pilot groups help them pull the trigger by taking a concession.

The major cost savings from longevity reduction could have easily still been attained for management without the value reduction in PSA's contract. Management could have just added the interviews and planes.

Short of starting a new airline there just aren't many places they could have put these planes. A concession was completely unnecessary.
 
Maurus said:
Management went fishing with these planes and PSA bit.

Obviously management has the right to move planes as they please I just don't like watching pilot groups help them pull the trigger by taking a concession.

The major cost savings from longevity reduction could have easily still been attained for management without the value reduction in PSA's contract. Management could have just added the interviews and planes.

Short of starting a new airline there just aren't many places they could have put these planes. A concession was completely unnecessary.
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You won't ever understand, that much is clear. But keep the hate up.
 
Maurus said:
Seems that's way.



No. That is what the captains spew out at me on the when they bring they subject up.

Talking about this stuff is how I learn. It definitely helps as have have changed a ton since joining this site. Unfortunately no one seems to make an argument that clicks this time around.
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Why does it seem you are rebuking the guys that sat on your end (ie ALPA's) of the negotiating table then?

I voted yes to the Pinnacle bankruptcy LOA. Just for frame of reference. I liked being employed enough to save my ass to be able to move on someday.
 
cencal83406 said:
Why does it seem you are rebuking the guys that sat on your end (ie ALPA's) of the negotiating table then?

I voted yes to the Pinnacle bankruptcy LOA. Just for frame of reference. I liked being employed enough to save my ass to be able to move on someday.
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And it worked? For me two. We're both evil.
 
cencal83406 said:
Why does it seem you are rebuking the guys that sat on your end (ie ALPA's) of the negotiating table then?
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Because PSA's new LOA could have easily had an impact on my airline's negotiations (Assuming a JCBA ever occurs, ugh). We got lucky that management decided cost neutral is the way to go when they could have easily have started playing some hard ball.

cencal83406 said:
I voted yes to the Pinnacle bankruptcy LOA. Just for frame of reference. I liked being employed enough to save my ass to be able to move on someday.
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You didn't exactly have a choice. PSA wasn't in bankruptcy and they likely would have gotten some or all of the planes anyway.
 
Maurus said:
Because PSA's new LOA could have easily had an impact on my airline's negotiations (Assuming a JCBA ever occurs, ugh). We got lucky that management decided cost neutral is the way to go when they could have easily have started playing some hard ball.


You didn't exactly have a choice. PSA wasn't in bankruptcy and they likely would have gotten some or all of the planes anyway.
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Until there is a guarantee of portable longevity/ seniority, each MEC (or EXCO for non-ALPA unions) has to negotiate the best deal for its pilots. You want ALPA National to be a union, elect folks at your carrier that will bring that message up the food chain.

What were the concessions? I just read my latest ALPA magazine and some of the loudest complainers about other ALPA pilots undercutting them work for companies with worse first year pay....
 
cencal83406 said:
Why does it seem you are rebuking the guys that sat on your end (ie ALPA's) of the negotiating table then?

I voted yes to the Pinnacle bankruptcy LOA. Just for frame of reference. I liked being employed enough to save my ass to be able to move on someday.
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What a weak excuse. No way were they going to overnight shut 9E down with 190+ airplanes. A complete shutdown would have taken at least 12 months (their words) and in reality longer because most regionals are having trouble finding pilots to fly their planes. That capacity (minus the -200s) would have to be shifted with new pilots to fly them. And you left anyway in 1-1.5 yrs from that threat. You're a yes voter, you don't really get to rip on PSA pilots.

You said it. "Save my ass" so you can move on one day. That's the reason there really isn't any unity amongst the regional pilots. It's all about who can move on, and so what if it costs the rest of the regional pilot groups. Where do you think these 12/4 yr caps came from? Endeavor started this chain recently. You helped partake in that experiment. Pilots at Eagle/Envoy said NO to shutdown threats. They had the balls to stand up for what's right.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
What a weak excuse. No way were they going to overnight shut 9E down with 190+ airplanes. A complete shutdown would have taken at least 12 months (their words) and in reality longer because most regionals are having trouble finding pilots to fly their planes. That capacity (minus the -200s) would have to be shifted with new pilots to fly them. And you left anyway in 1-1.5 yrs from that threat. You're a yes voter, you don't really get to rip on PSA pilots.

You said it. "Save my ass" so you can move on one day. That's the reason there really isn't any unity amongst the regional pilots. It's allt about who can move on, and so what if it costs the rest of the regional pilot groups. Where do you think these 12/4 yr caps came from? Endeavor started this chain recently. You helped partake in that experiment. Pilots at Eagle/Envoy said NO to shutdown threats. They had the balls to stand up for what's right.
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Actually, the 12/4 cap didn't originate with Endeavor. At least one previous instance would be Republic Airways, with a top out of $36 at 4 year FO.

Where did I rip on PSA pilots? Only the un-educated are ripping on them. The ones who don't understand business...

What's happening at Eagle right now? They're shutting down.

By the way, what economics degree says that a company that goes Chapter 7 takes 12 months to shut down?
 
They're shutting down because that's what the industry wants. It's not a matter of if. It's when. We've spent years looking down on the Regional pilot profession...how it symbolizes what is wrong with the airline industry. Yet, when the writing is on the wall that the Regional model isn't going to be able to remain as it is, we still argue as the doors shut. I don't believe that it's "cut costs or don't survive" happening here. I believe the management teams are trying to survive AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. Call it what you want. It's business. We have our end (employees). They have theirs (management). They're doing what they can to survive and it's up to us to do the same. Unfortunately, our needs don't always match that of the business, ESPECIALLY, when we're essentially contract workers.
 
cencal83406 said:
Actually, the 12/4 cap didn't originate with Endeavor. At least one previous instance would be Republic Airways, with a top out of $36 at 4 year FO.

Where did I rip on PSA pilots? Only the un-educated are ripping on them. The ones who don't understand business...

What's happening at Eagle right now? They're shutting down.

By the way, what economics degree says that a company that goes Chapter 7 takes 12 months to shut down?
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Shutting down? Negative, ghost rider. Shrinking to ~118 erj-145s. Leases go til 2018.
 
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