Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
All I said was comparatively, you guys have it pretty good. Never did I say a pilot has no reason to complain?
We are pilots, we don’t even need a reason to complain
AA vacancy bid
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All I said was comparatively, you guys have it pretty good. Never did I say a pilot has no reason to complain?
We are pilots, we don’t even need a reason to complain
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
OK BOOMER (I seriously think you want me to say that
).
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
OK BOOMER (I seriously think you want me to say that
With the white hair I see at 35 (soon to be 36) I may as well already be a boomer
AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
Seems like you have it about right. not sure what you’re asking about 3?
4) anyone who merges with AA gets the short end of the stick by become AA. Screwiest mentality I’ve ever seen. It will change in not too distant future thank god.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Post-merger irony is best irony!I wonder if a USAirways guy like me would pass the "organizational fit" test. Doubtful!
I know your 401k is the end all be all but it isn’t all about pay. My shop liked to throw money at pilots anytime they started getting restless and people would fall for it every time while QOL went further in the toilet. I didn’t care that I was making an extra 700 a month, I was never home and felt like I couldn’t escape work. Especially with a lack of work rules it seemed like someone in scheduling would sit there and go “how can we make this assignment as miserable and fatiguing as possible?” I don’t miss that, and it made me hate a job I used to like.
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
The mid Atlantic guys did pretty good. They are around 9500 on the seniority list of 15.5.
I flew with a native guy the other day. He was hired August 2001 and was well junior to me (13 hire). So all things considered mid Atlantic dudes had a decent outcome.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Thanks guys. I had heard that the MA guys had been kicked to the curb after they lost their case that they were part of the AAA (USAir) list. I had some acquaintances from the USAir wholly owneds that rolled the dice going over there. Glad to hear they did at least ok.
I guess #3 was what happened to the Eagle flow after the 200 + 800 guys flowed up?
I guess #3 was what happened to the Eagle flow after the 200 + 800 guys flowed up?
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
It’s been a while but i believe after the guys who had AA numbers the other guys just flowed regularly when their time came. I think they had higher percentages of new hire classes that had to be filled with eagle guys until the last “protected” pilot flowed over.
The numbers of off the street hires this year will increase immensely. The envoy flow numbers are going down and there is more overall hiring. There’s already been way more off the street hires this year.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Good deal. Hopefully you guys can get a new contract.
My primary CFI from WAY back in the day went to Nashville Eagle, which became Simmons, and ultimately smushed into the the one operation. I want to say he was in the “super protected” 200 group (considering he was at Eagle starting from 1992-93, he’d have to be you’d think).
He was always extremely bitter at the way AMR simply blew off the Eagle contract, and the squishy way everything was handled. He’d have to be pushing the big 60, so I hope he’s able to coast out doing something good.
My primary CFI from WAY back in the day went to Nashville Eagle, which became Simmons, and ultimately smushed into the the one operation. I want to say he was in the “super protected” 200 group (considering he was at Eagle starting from 1992-93, he’d have to be you’d think).
He was always extremely bitter at the way AMR simply blew off the Eagle contract, and the squishy way everything was handled. He’d have to be pushing the big 60, so I hope he’s able to coast out doing something good.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Super duper protected, covered better than a Jimmy hat?
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
What was his name?
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I can’t keep my Jordans straight, but if you are at Skywest you literally have zero right to complain. Vote in ALPA already.
If you’re not Skywest, then you have a point. Keep in mind it was even worse under the pre-117 rules. I remember scheduled reduced rest of 8 hrs. That’s 15 minutes after block in to report time. By the time you got to the hotel, plus the 45 minutes you needed to get ready, hotel van back to airport, etc, you were looking at best 5 hrs of sleep ifvyou were lucky. Normal rest was just 9 hrs. And after a scheduled reduced rest, comp rest was 11 hrs. What a joke.
You’re preaching to the choir on ALPA. Did what I could as part of the last organizing committee but ultimately voted with my feet.
But is funny how your second point is basically what I complained about that every single other regional deals with.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Right message, wrong reasoning. They've still got the right to complain.
The Safety Board (repeatedly) complained that the practice of scheduling reduced rest was not consistent with the level of safety intended by the regulations. I still remember my last scheduled 8.0 overnight. Personal experience suggests that the Safety Board was right.
I don't see what "if you're not SkyWest" has to do with that particular issue. Most every RJ outfit whose contracts I'm familiar with simply stipulate that the hours of service limits are whatever the current applicable regulations permit. For example, American Eagle Airlines, Inc., whose pilots were (and are) represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International had no stronger protections in their CBA concerning duty and rest than simple compliance with the applicable parts of Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations. Indeed, the way that reserve assignments were assigned or awarded at Eagle was (and to my knowledge, remains) arguably less strong from a fatigue mitigation standpoint than the equivalent rules at SkyWest in Standard Practice 3018.
tl;dr: there's plenty of stuff worth picking on over there, but I'm confident this is not a good exemplar issue.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Sent via PM...
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Convoluted is right.
1) This is correct. I believe there were more than 200 at one time, but by the time the merger snap shot happened, there was around 180-200 who had AA seniority numbers, but had never actually been a mainline pilot.
2) Pretty much
4) The "midatlantic" guys came in a couple different varieties. When MidAtlantic was formed, which was a B scale or worse scam, it was known as Midatlantic but was flown under USAir certificate and callsign. It was staffed by furloughed mainline USAir pilots first, and the rest of the ranks were filled with pilot from wholly owned subsidiaries like Allegheny and Piedmont (the Dash8 airlines). When those pilots came over, they werent sold that this was their pathway to mainline or that they were taking a job at USAir but only MidAtlantic*. Around the same time US/AW merged, Midatlantics airplanes were sold off to Republic, and some of their pilots had the option to follow the airplanes under a J4J agreement. Some did, and some stayed and gave up their recall rights (woops). It wasnt until the America West that they were suddenly tacked onto the USAir East list and become "one of ours". There was some battles along the way with LOS credit for time at MidAtlantic (so was I mainline or not?), but at the end of the day, those stumbled upon pretty good mainline seniority if they were relatively young, came over from a DH8 no questions asked, and now will live happily ever after with AA. Of all the people who got bad rides in the 2000s, I dont think they had the worst. All this stuff is in the rear view mirror and really isnt discussed much anymore.
*This is how it was described to me by an honest pilot who was involved.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Nah, I get it. No one likes to open up old wounds. But I had a few people I knew that rolled those dice, and curiosity got the better of me.
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
Don't forget that many of the MidAtlantic guys were furloughed (kinda sorta recalled-ish?) mainline guys, some dating from the late 80's. They didn't do so well.